many ACEA a5/b5 and a3/b4 only api SL

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Hi all you nice people.

When looking at oil approvals at engineoils sold here in Denmark. I have noticed that many if not most of the ACEA a5/b5 or a3/b4 are only API SL approved.

Does anybody know why it is so? It made me wonder since API SL is kind of outdated and the ACEA norms where last reformulated about 2010.

Thanks
Søren
 
API SM/SN limits the amount of certain additives in Xw-20 and Xw-30 grades. ACEA A3/B4 on the other hand requires a strong additive package to meet that TBN >= 10 requirement.

Hence, you will find that most Xw-30 oils that meet ACEA A3/B4 would be unable to comply with API SM/SN. On the other hand, there are Xw-40 oils that can meet both because those additive restrictions don't apply to Xw-40 grades. M1 0w-40 is a good example. It carries ACEA A3/B4 as well as API SN rating.

If your engine calls for an ACEA type oil, I would ignore API. It's pretty much irrelevant to you.
 
Soren, I don't think that should come as a total surprise in Europe. By the same token here in NA most OTC oils are not ACEA approved just API.
That said I would have thought finding an ACEA A5/B5 oil that was API SM at least approved was fairly easy. I have a jug of German made Fuchs Titan GT1 0W-20 that also has API SM approval.

Is this just a general question or are you trying source oil for a car that just requires an API SM/SN oil and not ACEA?
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM



Is this just a general question or are you trying source oil for a car that just requires an API SM/SN oil and not ACEA?


It was a general question. My own car, a 2008 Mazda 6 petrol requires a fairly common API SL, or ACEA a5/b5 5w-30. I however use European synpower 5w-30 that is both API SL and ACEA a3/b4. Aswell as LL01 MB229.5

I was simply wondering because I thought ACEA a3/b4 would equal API SN in performance.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: shDK
I thought ACEA a3/b4 would equal API SN in performance.

It depends on one's definition of performance.

ACEA A3/B4 exceeds API SN in many performance categories, but as I mentioned before, there are certain aspects of API SN that may prevent an ACEA A3/B4 oil from obtaining API SN cert.

A3B4_vs_SN.png
 
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM



Is this just a general question or are you trying source oil for a car that just requires an API SM/SN oil and not ACEA?


It was a general question. My own car, a 2008 Mazda 6 petrol requires a fairly common API SL, or ACEA a5/b5 5w-30. I however use European synpower 5w-30 that is both API SL and ACEA a3/b4. Aswell as LL01 MB229.5

I was simply wondering because I thought ACEA a3/b4 would equal API SN in performance.

Generally ACEA requirements are higher than API so I wouldn't hesitate to use an A5/B5 0W/5W-30 oil that doesn't also have dual API certification in your Mazda 6. The problem with the A3/B4 oil is that is notably heavier than an A5/B5 oil and therefore heavier than what's required.
 
OFF TOPIC...

Why is this so? Why does the ACEA have higher requirements than the API/ILSAC?
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Why does the ACEA have higher requirements than the API/ILSAC?

Because of historically longer oil drain intervals in Europe, maybe? Many cars there get an oil change there once every 2 years.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: wemay
Why does the ACEA have higher requirements than the API/ILSAC?

Because of historically longer oil drain intervals in Europe, maybe? Many cars there get an oil change there once every 2 years.


So the ACEA is prdominantly an extended drain spec? I guess what i'm asking is, concerning the spider chart posted above, are those readings measured at the VOA level or at a particular OCI? If at the VOA level, it would seem that the ACEA has more merit than extended OCI alone, no?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM



Is this just a general question or are you trying source oil for a car that just requires an API SM/SN oil and not ACEA?


It was a general question. My own car, a 2008 Mazda 6 petrol requires a fairly common API SL, or ACEA a5/b5 5w-30. I however use European synpower 5w-30 that is both API SL and ACEA a3/b4. Aswell as LL01 MB229.5

I was simply wondering because I thought ACEA a3/b4 would equal API SN in performance.

Generally ACEA requirements are higher than API so I wouldn't hesitate to use an A5/B5 0W/5W-30 oil that doesn't also have dual API certification in your Mazda 6. The problem with the A3/B4 oil is that is notably heavier than an A5/B5 oil and therefore heavier than what's required.


Actually Mazda specs anything between 5w-20 to 10w40. So I thought a3/b4 with it,s more stout HTHS above 3.5 was best since the engine work really hard for long times some times.
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
are those readings measured at the VOA level or at a particular OCI? If at the VOA level, it would seem that the ACEA has more merit than extended OCI alone, no?

Tests are performed on fresh (VOA) oil, but some of these tests can take many hours/days to perform, which kind of simulates the stresses that an oil would go through in extended use.

Also, take that Lubrizol spider chart with a grain of salt. It's Lubrizol's subjective way of trying to compare specs that often times aren't comparable because they consist of completely different battery of tests.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: wemay
are those readings measured at the VOA level or at a particular OCI? If at the VOA level, it would seem that the ACEA has more merit than extended OCI alone, no?

Tests are performed on fresh (VOA) oil, but some of these tests can take many hours/days to perform, which kind of simulates the stresses that an oil would go through in extended use.

Also, take that Lubrizol spider chart with a grain of salt. It's Lubrizol's subjective way of trying to compare specs that often times aren't comparable because they consist of completely different battery of tests.


Very very interesting and thank you as always QP.
 
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM



Is this just a general question or are you trying source oil for a car that just requires an API SM/SN oil and not ACEA?


It was a general question. My own car, a 2008 Mazda 6 petrol requires a fairly common API SL, or ACEA a5/b5 5w-30. I however use European synpower 5w-30 that is both API SL and ACEA a3/b4. Aswell as LL01 MB229.5

I was simply wondering because I thought ACEA a3/b4 would equal API SN in performance.

Generally ACEA requirements are higher than API so I wouldn't hesitate to use an A5/B5 0W/5W-30 oil that doesn't also have dual API certification in your Mazda 6. The problem with the A3/B4 oil is that is notably heavier than an A5/B5 oil and therefore heavier than what's required.


Actually Mazda specs anything between 5w-20 to 10w40. So I thought a3/b4 with it,s more stout HTHS above 3.5 was best since the engine work really hard for long times some times.

If the engine is spec'd for a 5W-20 with a HTHSV of just 2.6cP for year round use then that's all the engine requires from a lubrication perspective even under the most arduous conditions.
The specifying of heavier grades has more to do with what's availability than anything else. Also if one is cruising a high speeds and therefore high rev's, oil consumption can be an issue with lighter oil, so a heavier grade may prove more suitable.

Anyway, since a A5/B5 5W-30 is already heavier than the minimum grade specified, it you can get such an oil for a good price I would certainly recommend it over an A3/B4 oil.
 
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