DI Engines - 100K mile Reviews ?

[wemay]

Clevy makes an excellent point concerning intake cleaning agents applied through the vacuum lines of forced induction engines. This product may be the exception. I couldnt find out why though.

http://crcindustries.com/auto/intake-valve-cleaner.php

 

[badtlc]

for the 1000th time, lets go over it again.

The engine is a system and as such you can't look at something as simple as fuel doesn't directly see the intake valves to wash off deposits. Lets start at the beginning, the injectors:

- DI fuel injectors operate at MUCH higher pressures than traditional injectors. They are also more prone to fouling from deposits than traditional injectors.
- When DI injectors foul, the spray doesn't atomize properly.
- Without proper atomization of the fuel spray, the combustion within the chamber becomes less complete than normal which means more fuel left over in the combustion chamber.
- The excess, unburned fuel ends up seeping into the oil.
- Fuel in the oil leads to increased volatility of the oil.
- Increases in oil volatility increases oil vaporization.
- INcreases in oil vapors then increase the flow of vapor through the PCV system.
- This increase in oil vapors through the PCV increases the rate of intake valve deposits.

So, in order to help PREVENT, SLOW DOWN and/or minimize intake valve deposits, fuel system cleaners are HIGHLY recommended, even by auto manufacturers. Keeping injectors and combustion chamber cleanliness is the first step in prevention.

Also, intake injection cleaners (seafoam or similar through the intake) do NOT clean intake valve deposits. Those cleaners clean up soft gummy deposits but not hard ones like found on intake valves. THere are many tests around the internet where you can see pictures of such tests. BG claims to have a multi step process but it is much more complicated than just using a vacuum tube.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
** What I can't determine is if the study shows a benefit to using a synthetic Group IV oil and changing it early / often has an advantage over doing the same with Group III or Group II oils ?

Based on what is being said on page 16 of the document you posted, they are alluding to a possibility that low SAPS oils may be better for DI. This would be in line with Lubrizol's findings. Page 19...

https://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/ConferencePapers/LowerSAPS.pdf


Of course, because our gasoline in the US is not yet ultra-low sulfur, most gasoline engine manufacturers advise against the use of low SAPS oils here because they may have difficulty lasting through a long OCI. But as long as you're willing to do more frequent oil changes, I see no issues.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: Danno
I installed a catch can on my 2013 Sonata 2.4L. Will it help deposits - not sure but I do pull about 8 oz. of liquid crud from the catch can every 3,750 miles, which is the OCI for Canada.


Yeah, that is something a lot of folks never consider. My 2013 Siverado is not DI, but I still put a catch can setup on mine shortly after buying it new. I get about an ounce of oil every 1000 miles during warmer months, but in the winter, the milky condensation/oil really fills up the catch can. Amazing the amount of junk that goes thru the PCV to the intake. At least the catch can is keeping it out of the intake. This mod is the best thing anyone with a DI engine could do to get ahead of any problems.

 

[wemay]

Hyundai recommends fuel system cleaners if Top Tier gas isnt used regularly.

 

[ChrisD46]

Based on replies I have modified my GDI engine maintenance checklist :

1) Use Top Tier gas
2) Don't "lug" a GDI engine , keep RPM's up (plus Italian tune up on occasion) .
3) Use a top quality , low NOACK oil
4) Use synthetic oil and change 5) Add a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles
6) Perform a CRC Intake cleaning every 7,500 ~ 10,000 miles .

* Here is the $64K question : Am I actually saving any $$ with a GDI engine when compared to a PFI engine - especially considering the above routine ?

 

[wemay]

ChrisD46,

That study you posted might be better off as a New Topic altogether. The information contained is very interesting, and especially so to Hyundai/Kia GDi owners. It has been so informative, in fact, that I will run only synthetics after my current fill in both vehicles. Although there hasn't been many ivd issues illustrated on the various Korean car forums, how would the avg Joe know he has an issue until it's to late? Yeah, we love both vehicles and will use Synthetics/Top Tier/Techron, and short oci. I tried to fight the good fight (the OM only req SN/GF5 etc...) but more and more studies follow the same theme. (Oh yeah, and CRC GDi intake cleaner...maybe)

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Based on replies I have modified my GDI engine maintenance checklist :

1) Use Top Tier gas
2) Don't "lug" a GDI engine , keep RPM's up (plus Italian tune up on occasion) .
3) Use a top quality , low NOACK oil
4) Use synthetic oil and change 5) Add a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles
6) Perform a CRC Intake cleaning every 7,500 ~ 10,000 miles .

* Here is the $64K question : Am I actually saving any $$ with a GDI engine when compared to a PFI engine - especially considering the above routine ?


I was wondering the same thing... What is the cost per mile for that regimen?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Based on replies I have modified my GDI engine maintenance checklist :

1) Use Top Tier gas
2) Don't "lug" a GDI engine , keep RPM's up (plus Italian tune up on occasion) .
3) Use a top quality , low NOACK oil
4) Use synthetic oil and change 5) Add a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles
6) Perform a CRC Intake cleaning every 7,500 ~ 10,000 miles .

* Here is the $64K question : Am I actually saving any $$ with a GDI engine when compared to a PFI engine - especially considering the above routine ?



Sounds like a design that is more trouble than it is worth. When the engineers get it
"right" then I'm interested.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

On a GDI engine or GTDI engine, lugging it will cause it to use a lot more fuel. It has to overfuel to avoid pinging. In my experience on a 2013 2.0L escape, using the up/down buttons will get slightly better mileage if you drop it down a gear earlier than it would on its own.

Or use 91 octane

 

[wemay]

I don't see anything on the list others don't do here, except maybe the oil change at or less than 5K miles on synthetic. Most people use Top Tier without even knowing it. Lots of folks use Techron as well. CRC Intake cleaning every 10K miles doesn't seem to be an exorbitant expense nor is it a requirement. And again, the vast majority of d.i. users have had trouble free vehicles.

 

[MCompact]

I do use Top Tier fuels as well as Techron every 3k, but I run a 7.5k OCI with no ill effects.

 

[ChrisD46]

I had thought the same thing - until I found the car models I was interested in no longer offered PFI engines hence why I became interested in a GDI "prevent defense" ... The 3rd valve concept is interesting - what vehicles use it now ?
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Based on replies I have modified my GDI engine maintenance checklist :

1) Use Top Tier gas
2) Don't "lug" a GDI engine , keep RPM's up (plus Italian tune up on occasion) .
3) Use a top quality , low NOACK oil
4) Use synthetic oil and change 5) Add a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles
6) Perform a CRC Intake cleaning every 7,500 ~ 10,000 miles .

* Here is the $64K question : Am I actually saving any $$ with a GDI engine when compared to a PFI engine - especially considering the above routine ?



Sounds like a design that is more trouble than it is worth. When the engineers get it
"right" then I'm interested.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: Danno
I installed a catch can on my 2013 Sonata 2.4L. Will it help deposits - not sure but I do pull about 8 oz. of liquid crud from the catch can every 3,750 miles, which is the OCI for Canada.


Yeah, that is something a lot of folks never consider. My 2013 Siverado is not DI, but I still put a catch can setup on mine shortly after buying it new. I get about an ounce of oil every 1000 miles during warmer months, but in the winter, the milky condensation/oil really fills up the catch can. Amazing the amount of junk that goes thru the PCV to the intake. At least the catch can is keeping it out of the intake. This mod is the best thing anyone with a DI engine could do to get ahead of any problems.


Plenty of DI owners have tried them. Just check out the BMW, Mini, etc. forums. Nobody has found them to stop intake valve deposits. Even water/meth injection with a catch can doesn't prevent it.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Based on replies I have modified my GDI engine maintenance checklist :

1) Use Top Tier gas
2) Don't "lug" a GDI engine , keep RPM's up (plus Italian tune up on occasion) .
3) Use a top quality , low NOACK oil
4) Use synthetic oil and change 5) Add a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles
6) Perform a CRC Intake cleaning every 7,500 ~ 10,000 miles .

* Here is the $64K question : Am I actually saving any $$ with a GDI engine when compared to a PFI engine - especially considering the above routine ?


I would not do #6. #5 can wait every 5k or so. In addition to #1, I run premium because it leans out my engine and reduces fuel dilution for me. I also get better MPGs on premium. It is the first thing i'd recommend for any DI engine. With premium it doesn't have to spray as much fuel to keep combustion temps down.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: wemay
I don't see anything on the list others don't do here, except maybe the oil change at or less than 5K miles on synthetic. Most people use Top Tier without even knowing it. Lots of folks use Techron as well. CRC Intake cleaning every 10K miles doesn't seem to be an exorbitant expense nor is it a requirement. And again, the vast majority of d.i. users have had trouble free vehicles.


That seems like a lot of work for running a DI motor. I haven't put anything but fuel into my vehicles for the last 5+ years. I guess a 5k OCI isn't that bad, but... I'm used to 10k now.

 

[glock19]

This thread has been very interesting to me. My wife is going to need a new car soon and I was thinking she might like the Santa Fe Sport. However, with this list of do's and dont's for DI I'm thinking it's probably not the best choice for her. The trouble might be finding a new car that doesn't have DI.

I'm sure any bitoger would have no problem mainting a DI vehicle but how are common people who don't give two hoots about a car keeping them running reliably?

EDIT: Also, how do people with DI put up with such short OCIs? Currently, her Highlander uses a 7,500K OCI and we're changing the oil 4 times a year. This thread has indicated sticking to a 3,750K OCI. I can't imagine changing the oil 8 times a year.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: glock19


EDIT: Also, how do people with DI put up with such short OCIs? Currently, her Highlander uses a 7,500K OCI and we're changing the oil 4 times a year. This thread has indicated sticking to a 3,750K OCI. I can't imagine changing the oil 8 times a year.


Not sure. I do 10k OCIs on mine.

 

[CT8]

Seems since oil evaporates it lighter components early in its use the opposite [longer oil drains] would seem the better idea.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Based on replies I have modified my GDI engine maintenance checklist :

1) Use Top Tier gas
2) Don't "lug" a GDI engine , keep RPM's up (plus Italian tune up on occasion) .
3) Use a top quality , low NOACK oil
4) Use synthetic oil and change 5) Add a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles
6) Perform a CRC Intake cleaning every 7,500 ~ 10,000 miles .

* Here is the $64K question : Am I actually saving any $$ with a GDI engine when compared to a PFI engine - especially considering the above routine ?


This is totally unnecessary. Top Tier fuel and a quality oil are all I do and have ever done on every car I've owned (DI or not).

Also, you don't need a bottle of Techron if you're using Top Tier fuel, the fuel already has a ton of detergent in it. Dumping an entire bottle of Tide into your washing machine isn't going to get your clothes any cleaner.