Senseless engine bashing

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Sorry guys but the injector swap is not going to net +5 MPG in a 4.0L.

As far as being "junk" - that's pretty laughable. I'm not even going to get into it.


Well I think you are mistaken. My 2001 went from just under 20 to 26 from just the new 4 port injectors and a fuel filter. This is what my trip computer is saying for average. Could be the old single port injectors where not in great shape either as they had 155K on them.

 

[CDX825]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Not all new vehicles are "infallible" just look at the Ford 6.0L PowerJOKE diesel motor.




You mean the International VT365, its predecessor being the DT444 (Powerstroke 7.3L in Ford Land).


Its a T444E not a DT444. The DTs were inline wet sleeve engines. DT466, DT360 etc

Back to the original topic, guys that bash the 6.0 without having ever touched one are just as bad in my opinion.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: CDX825

Back to the original topic, guys that bash the 6.0 without having ever touched one are just as bad in my opinion.


Excellent. Many people here have such strong opinions about something they have never owned or driven...

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Sorry guys but the injector swap is not going to net +5 MPG in a 4.0L.

As far as being "junk" - that's pretty laughable. I'm not even going to get into it.


Well I think you are mistaken. My 2001 went from just under 20 to 26 from just the new 4 port injectors and a fuel filter. This is what my trip computer is saying for average. Could be the old single port injectors where not in great shape either as they had 155K on them.


Sorry Don, a Grand Cherokee with a 4.0L is not getting 26MPG. My kid's '89 2 door with Ford injectors get's 20 and the Renix systems were a little more fuel efficient than the OBD1 or 2 HO engines. Never mind that it's also several hundred pounds lighter than a Grand.

I have tried every combination of injectors, throttle bodies, and exhaust there is on Jeep 2.5/258/242 engines (on a dyno). A simple injector swap will have slightly better driveability and might get a "bit" better mileage.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: CDX825
Back to the original topic, guys that bash the 6.0 without having ever touched one are just as bad in my opinion.


I've been bashed for saying the 6.0L isn't as bad as it's made out to be (although pulling the cab for head studs was quite interesting). I also like the 6.4L and have a friend with a sled puller that runs 13's in the 1/4. Although I typically drive Fords, I respect all the brands and know that they all have had their trouble.

Look at the EcoBoost 3.5L. Ford tested and beat the snot out of it and advertised as such. Despite all the millions spent on R&D, leave it to the working man to truly find any design issues.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CDX825
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Not all new vehicles are "infallible" just look at the Ford 6.0L PowerJOKE diesel motor.




You mean the International VT365, its predecessor being the DT444 (Powerstroke 7.3L in Ford Land).


Its a T444E not a DT444. The DTs were inline wet sleeve engines. DT466, DT360 etc

Back to the original topic, guys that bash the 6.0 without having ever touched one are just as bad in my opinion.


DERP! Yes, was thinking of the DT466, thanks for the correction

 

[Zaedock]

Hey Don, after re-reading I hope I don't sound like a dink, I just have a lot of experience with Jeeps. On board engine computers often exaggerate real fuel economy and averaging 26MPG in a heavy brick with wheels seems unrealistic. By comparison, my friend with a 3.0L CRD Grand averages 22 between city/Hwy and might get 26 on the highway alone. For yours to average 26, you'd be looking at near 28/30 MPG on the highway. I just don't see that as possible with the 4.0L engine.

 

[JustinH]

My wife's toyota matrix with a little four banger gets 28-30mpg, no more.

That thing runs like a clock.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

It's true that they did have problems towards the end.

Around 2000 they seemed to have problems with piston skirts - others will disagree, but it seems to be 99-02 with the most frequent piston skirt droppage. Mine has started to chatter ... we'll see what happens.

Overheating - someone else already mentioned that. The radiator on the 4.0L Cherokee is smaller than the 2.5L cherokee. The Cherokee XJ was never meant for such a large (physical size) engine and there had to be compromises. With that said, I can go off roading on a 90 degree day, beat on it pretty good with the AC on and not go above 220. 220 is safe for these. A new radiator is on the list for me.

Also, it's important to remember that the 4.0 was designed to run at 210-220. They NEED to run that temperature to be most efficient. If your 4.0 is running at 180 or below ... it's going to get poor mileage and you won't be getting the oil up to the proper temperature.

They are a great engine for what they are. Simple, 12 valve 6 cylinder, old style engine. Modern engines can make a lot more power and be more efficient ... but they are significantly more complex.

A lot of people are under the false assumption that they are only good under 1500RPM. They are most efficient around 2K or a hair above. Quite a few people I have seen get BETTER highway mileage when swapping out the 3.07 gears (5 speed) for 3.55 gears. The best mileage I ever got out of one was on a 2004 Wrangler Rubicon with 4.10 gears.

The emissions ended up killing them. The last few years of the 4.0 had to be loaded with catalysts to get them to meet California emissions.

I love the Jeep 4.0 engine. I'll probably be adding another vehicle equipped with one to the fleet soon.

The reality is - it's an agricultural engine by today's standards. Not a lot of power (decent torque though), not "green", inefficient and can't wind it up to 7K RPM to get higher numbers out of it.

 

[dlundblad]

The point I was trying to get at with my original post was that the only thing he had against the engine was overheating problems because of water flow.

Every issue about them mentioned in this thread was originally mentioned in my first post with the exception of the XJs getting too hot. Seems more XJ oriented though because of a small radiator. Not the engines fault.

 

[HangFire]

Every engine out there has TSB's on it, and every manufacturer made year to year tweaks- some good, some not so good. I've known many 4.0L owners and all were happy with the engine.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but when the 4.0L was introduced in the Commanche, Jeep put tires and a bed cover on it, took it to the salt flats and set a land speed record for production pickup trucks. OK reading the article there was a lot more mods involved:

http://www.allpar.com/racing/land-speed-record/jeep-comanche.html

Originally Posted By: Donald
Sorry guys but the injector swap is not going to net +5 MPG in a 4.0L.
Well I think you are mistaken. My 2001 went from just under 20 to 26 from just the new 4 port injectors and a fuel filter. This is what my trip computer is saying for average. Could be the old single port injectors where not in great shape either as they had 155K on them. [/quote]

Sorry Donald, but your trip computer is calibrated for the fuel flow rate of the old injectors. It may be right, but I wouldn't trust it.

I don't have a Jeep 4.0, but I can tell you both that my trip computer is always optimistic on MPG.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The point I was trying to get at with my original post was that the only thing he had against the engine was overheating problems because of water flow.

Every issue about them mentioned in this thread was originally mentioned in my first post with the exception of the XJs getting too hot. Seems more XJ oriented though because of a small radiator. Not the engines fault.



Yup, put a 3 row radiator in my XJ and it runs at 200* constantly now. Yes '00-'02 4.0s can crack heads, and some have broken piston skirts, but look how many are still on the road. I would venture to say that the 4.0 is probably one of the most durable engines out there. I've seen them run after being hydrolocked, upside down, etc.

As far as power, the Grand Cherokees are a bit heavier and a tad bit slower. My XJ gets many cars off the line and I can still kick it sideways pretty easily.

The 4.0 is also very simple, so parts are cheap and easy to fix. They can keep laughing at my OLD JEEP until they have a repair bill from the dealer on their new awesome car.

 

[dlundblad]

The Grand Cherokees are very heavy. The WJs are around 4000 lbs.

I have driven a 4.0 TJ and XJ.. Both of which had 31's and they still had more get up and go than my Jeep. My dads 1987 Comanche with the Renix, 31's and 3.08 gearing even seems faster.

IIRC, the WJ is even heavier than the ZJ.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The Grand Cherokees are very heavy. The WJs are around 4000 lbs.

I have driven a 4.0 TJ and XJ.. Both of which had 31's and they still had more get up and go than my Jeep. My dads 1987 Comanche with the Renix, 31's and 3.08 gearing even seems faster.

IIRC, the WJ is even heavier than the ZJ.


The WJ is the heaviest 4.0 equipped Jeep there was. XJ and YJ were lighter than the others.

Some people liked the torque curve of the Renix 4.0 more than the 4.0 HO.

 

[KCJeep]

No doubt the WJ's weight pushes the 4.0. It still has plenty of grunt down low and if you learn how to keep the rpm's up a bit it helps too. The WJ will let you turn off the overdrive which is great around town for drive ability.

 

[MNgopher]

The 4.0 in the XJ was challenged on cooling, but as others noted that isn't the engines fault. Just a function of the available radiator space and a compact engine compartment for an engine of that size. And they did run hot out of the box - 210+ was normal and expected.

And I also seriously doubt injectors will gain 5 mpg on one of these - particularly when we are relying on the computer. Measure it the conventional way - full tanks and mileage, and I'll bet it is substantially lower.

My' 88 Cherokee with the 4.0, upgraded to 19lb Ford injectors, tiny tires (215/75/15), and 3.55 gearing could get 21 mpg, but only a good day.

I don't bash what I don't know. Makes me look slightly less stupid. And I've been wrong before and admitted it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: CDX825

Back to the original topic, guys that bash the 6.0 without having ever touched one are just as bad in my opinion.


Excellent. Many people here have such strong opinions about something they have never owned or driven...


Driven several...they drove fine, when they ran! Five engines, five diasaters, two companies that will never buy a Ford diesel (one won't buy another FORD) again.

 

[2Fast4U]

My brother was an ase cert mechanic for 14+ years. When I met my wife and her dodge product he warned me up an down at the extremely poor engineered parts and vehicles. I said ok I will just do the work myself. He was spot on. The [censored] car had everything go wrong including mutilple ac compressor failures, power steering failure warped heads and tons more. The stupid car was on jack stands in my garage at LEAST once a month for something.
In my eyes no manufacturer is worse then dodge/et all. My kids are nearing driving age and I will tell them if they buy dodge I will not work on it.

 

[Camprunner]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The Jeep 4.0 sure has a lot of fans for a "junk" engine.

Here in Western MA I see Old Jeep 4.0's all over the place with a boat load of miles as a matter of fact the guy who works on my cars and trucks drives an old Cherokee 4.0 with 355,000 miles on it that he says he will junk when the motor dies. He said that five years ago and he is still driving it!

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
My brother was an ase cert mechanic for 14+ years. When I met my wife and her dodge product he warned me up an down at the extremely poor engineered parts and vehicles. I said ok I will just do the work myself. He was spot on. The [censored] car had everything go wrong including mutilple ac compressor failures, power steering failure warped heads and tons more. The stupid car was on jack stands in my garage at LEAST once a month for something.
In my eyes no manufacturer is worse then dodge/et all. My kids are nearing driving age and I will tell them if they buy dodge I will not work on it.


So youre basing your opinion of a brand off of your one experince with one of their models?