Generator Questions / Comments

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Well, looks like I need to invest in more (and or bigger) cans! We do have extended outage at least once a air but I am not too comfortable stocking and rotating that much of gas in the garage.

I am also trying my best to educate the household that this is "emergency" generator and not the whole house generator! Some discomfort is to be expected.

Who do I install that Power Return Alert? I have no idea what do they mean by "1/2 trade size knockout"? I would rather not mess with the panel itself.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: earlyre
We have a 17kw generac whole house gen.(Nat. Gas. Would be 20kw on lp gas) The central a/c is the only thing not hooked to it.


Seems a bit oversized or do you have electric heat?

My 6800Watt nominal/8500 Peak does fine with well pump, fridge, boiler, one heavy draw(oven or dryer), and lights etc.

Nope. Gas furnace. Replaced a/c,furnace(and blower), gas water heater 2 years ago.
We do have a shallow well (jet pump), areobic airiated "septic tank" has a motor stirring the slurry and introducing air 24/7, 2 refrigerators, an upright freezer, sump pump that on a normal day cycles every 5 min or so....

Before the auto backup gen was installed, had a 5kw peak gasoline portable, that would run the well, water heater,furnace, 1 fridge, TV and a few lamps.
When dad decided to put in the standby gen, it was to ensure the sump pump would run if we were out of town, and that would run the whole house if we were home. The local company that put it in, said Most new construction homes are getting gens put in, and this is the "normal" size. Also said it puts out VERY clean power
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Well, looks like I need to invest in more (and or bigger) cans! We do have extended outage at least once a air but I am not too comfortable stocking and rotating that much of gas in the garage.


Do you have space on your property for a small storage shed such as those used for patio furniture pads, pool toys, etc.? I have one of those from Rubbermaid that I store 4 5gal NATO gas cans in. The NATO cans are pricey, about $50 each, but they can withstand being tossed into a fire. They don't leak and fuel stays fresher longer in them.

Shed:
http://www.rubbermaid.com/Category/Pages...rod_ID=RP091378

NATO Cans:
http://store.oldgrouch.biz/4rednajeutca.html
Old Grouch is a reputable place - buy with confidence.

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Who do I install that Power Return Alert? I have no idea what do they mean by "1/2 trade size knockout"? I would rather not mess with the panel itself.


Please take no offense, but if you don't know what a 1/2" knockout is, then you may not be the person to install this unit.

It's relatively simple though - should take an electrician about 30 minutes to do. The brochure shows a picture:
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Documents/PowerBack Sell sheet Final.pdf

You remove the KO, attach the unit, and wrap the probe around one of service feed wires. Attach the ground and you're done. The panel cover needs to be removed to do this. If you're not comfortable with that, call a pro.
 
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I am trying to find the typical weight of the alternator unit of the generator set. Given that a typical car engine has no problem generating 15-20 hp at idle, it can't be too difficult to generate 6kw of power. These days with computerized engine controls, the ECM can easily keep the engine at fixed (low) speed. Especially on a truck, this should be even easier as who would notice the added 50 or 100 lbs of the weight? Most of the vehicles these days have throttle by wire, it would be just a matter of programming to write house_generator_mode() routine! Is there some technical problem in the feasibility of this approach?
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am trying to find the typical weight of the alternator unit of the generator set. Given that a typical car engine has no problem generating 15-20 hp at idle, it can't be too difficult to generate 6kw of power. These days with computerized engine controls, the ECM can easily keep the engine at fixed (low) speed. Especially on a truck, this should be even easier as who would notice the added 50 or 100 lbs of the weight? Most of the vehicles these days have throttle by wire, it would be just a matter of programming to write house_generator_mode() routine! Is there some technical problem in the feasibility of this approach?


I've always liked this idea, but you need a disengagement safety so normal driving doesn't introduce 18000 rpm to the genset resulting in a catastrophe. almost more practical to source a small engine out of a geo or a bobcat, use belt drive to set engine rpm to 1500, gen head to 3600, and mount it on a stand. If I lived somewhere where outages were common, I'd probably be all over this...
 
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: Vikas
This brings interesting question. How would I know if the line power is back? I wish I had thought about this and had asked the electrician to install something when he installed the interlock panel.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-PowerBack-Utility-Power-Return-Alert-THP108/202216506


I have a manual transfer switch which only switches 5 circuits (6 but one is 220). When street power comes back on I am sure I will notice some of the lights that are not switched.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas


Who do I install that Power Return Alert? I have no idea what do they mean by "1/2 trade size knockout"? I would rather not mess with the panel itself.


My smart meter has a green LED on it when it's getting power.
wink.gif


What's your meter like?

Are there any cable TV boxes etc with pilot lights hanging from telegrpaph poles you can spy?
 
My meter is outside the house; But that is where my generator is running. I need to look at my meter to see if it has any indication.

I have the Interlock switch which lets me select absolutely any circuit in the house to run on the generator but the disadvantage is that either the entire house may get power from the utility or from the generator BUT never from both at the same time.

I was also surprised by the efficiency numbers listed in some of the earlier replies. Although I should not have been. As it is internal combustion engine in itself is quite poor in converting chemical energy in to mechanical energy :-( Add inefficiency of the generator itself to the mix and we are talking pretty poor numbers.

This brings up the question. How come utility company can afford to sell one kWh for $0.15 if it is NOT using the Hoover Dam or Niagara Falls as its fuel? Doesn't coal or diesel have equally poor efficiency?
 
There's a few smaller power companies in my area that burn trash, tires and wood to heat water and spin turbines. When it's not lucrative for them to sell to the grid, they throttle back and rely on their steam sales to nearby companies to generate cash.
 
Having run my house 24/7 after the hurricanes for MONTHS on end, using an 11HP generator, I know the fuel consumption well. In my case, 5 gallons will run the generator 8.5 hours.

I had propane for hot water. But, my well pump is 2HP, 90PSI and I was running 2ea, 10,000 BTU window air conditioners.

My Diesel Listeroid (has about 11,000W max output) will run the house 24 hours on 8 gallons. Including the 16 SEER central AC (which admittedly is much more efficient than the window units)
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
This brings up the question. How come utility company can afford to sell one kWh for $0.15 if it is NOT using the Hoover Dam or Niagara Falls as its fuel? Doesn't coal or diesel have equally poor efficiency?


Vastly more efficient. Small engines not so efficient. They can get easily 2x the power out per Btu (something like 50% efficient on the gas turbines?) and not only that but because they buy huge amounts of fuel at a time they get pricing breaks.

I keep wanting to get a generator but in nearly 10 years time I've needed one once. Granted I would have needed it for a solid 3 days in the middle of winter.
 
Another stupid comment:-

After the power came back, for the next 24 hours I used to still hear white noise like generator sound.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas

After the power came back, for the next 24 hours I used to still hear white noise like generator sound.


Amen to that...sounded like a lawnmower convention here for 12 days, and took a while for the effect to wear off. Fortunately, gas was scarce so it got quieter at night.
 
The thing is I do not believe anybody in the neighborhood was running generator. It was the mind playing trick on me.
 
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