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#3403215 - 06/21/14 06:35 PM NHRA drag racing june 15.
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
2 fuel classes. 16 cars each class on race day. is a total of 30 passes. at the end of racing ONLY 4 passes was both cars under full power at end of track. glad i didnt pay to see that. that is NOT racing that is 70 % fail rate. glad those tuners dont tune my truck.

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#3403371 - 06/21/14 09:57 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
ag_ghost Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 400
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Can't disagree with the sentiment. The engines are built on the thinnest edge of blowing up; I get a sense the crews are almost surprised if they're are no failures after all of 1000 feet. In top fuel/funny, they'll let the television crews film almost anything with respect to building the engine but they guard clutch settings like gold at Fort Knox.
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#3407900 - 06/26/14 07:46 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
The film crews do have pretty good access, but there are A LOT of details that the camera's simply can't pick up on.

But the clutch set-up is the most closely guarded.

As far as tuning goes; it's far more complicated than most fans realize.

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#3407918 - 06/26/14 08:03 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
yep good ideas. i helped a guy in the late 60s run a funny car. and people that havent campaigned a car have NO idea what it takes to run a drag race car.

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#3408190 - 06/27/14 06:45 AM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
ARB1977 Offline


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 4498
Loc: North Texas
It's amazing watching crews take a car apart and put it back together. Hearing it coming to life is a whole new level.
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#3408236 - 06/27/14 08:08 AM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1631
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
and that is what is so great about the nhra top fuel pits.

you can stand at the rope (which touches the table they are putting the parts on) and see the entire head just sitting there as the crew takes the next off.
barely 10 feet away as they totally strip and rebuild the entire car between rounds.
if you are polite and patient, you can even slip in a question or two and get an answer.
i've been under TP's mustang body shell looking out the holes his blower made when it went boom. team force guy with the gelcoat and cloth bends down and gets under it with me. "can i patch this up for the next race?", he asked me. "sure man its your job. thanks for letting me look out!", i replied.

now, venture over to the pro stock pits and its a compelete different world! heads get removed under a blanket. carried into the hauler in blanket/towel and you never see NOTHIN! all hush hush and covered and top secret. no eyes no camera no nothing. sure you can watch, but you wont see anything!

if you are a kid and show the enthusiazim and respect and ask very very nicely, you can have your dad haul home a rear slick off a top fuel car. fyi, a single rear off a TFD takes up most of the bed of a ram 3500. my friends son was ape crazy the entire drive home with it.

steve
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#3408516 - 06/27/14 01:55 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
The Fans can see the heads we take off, but without knowing the combustion chamber volume, the size of the jets in the fuel nozzles, and the spring pressure being run on that particular set of heads, it won't tell them anything of value.

Then there are a lot of other variables which affect the set-up. Which unless you are experienced with tuning a Fuel car, and know every single variable going into the car for a run, knowing one or two aspects of the set-up through close, knowledgeable observation, won't help the casual spectator.

Then there's the fact that even if two cars are set-up exactly the same, there's is no guarantee they will react the same. They all have their own unique personality.

The only way to determine what a car likes, is lots of runs, and gathering the data from every run. So you can make more informed decisions about what might work for a given set of track and atmospheric conditions.

If anyone is interested in seeing the action in the pits and on-track up close, we're at Route 66 Raceway in Chicago this weekend. The Fuel cars are scheduled to run at 5:15 and 8:00 today. 5:00 and 8:00 tomorrow.

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#3409647 - 06/28/14 11:12 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: 02SE]
ag_ghost Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 400
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
That's cool. Thanks for the insights and hope it went well.
Kevin
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#3411804 - 07/01/14 03:59 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
yep got to see the Route 66 Raceway race on sunday. and the tuners did do a better job of parts carnage. out of 30 total passes 12 had both car under full power at the end of track. with only one red light. both Top Fuel and Funny Car last run was both car at full power at end the end of the track.

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#3412627 - 07/02/14 02:40 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
The tour is in Norwalk, Ohio, this weekend.

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#3417571 - 07/07/14 08:37 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
OK Norwalk july 6. in both nitro classes. a total of 30 passes to get to the finals. the tuners are getting better. we had 15 passes with both cars at full power. much better that we have been having. i still say we need sealed engines. but ill get flamed for that. and i would to see more sportsman cars on TV.

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#3417602 - 07/07/14 09:02 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
I'll just say that all of us that work on Fuel cars, have experience, and a good idea of what works and what doesn't.

Sometimes you get a little closer to the perfect combination of parts and settings, to solve a very complicated puzzle.

Sometimes the track and atmospheric conditions are such that a good outcome is more likely.

I don't think it's a question of getting better. Although like everyone in all walks of life, we are always looking to improve.

As I've said before when you mentioned a sealed engine; sure you could do it, but the engines would be so drastically de-tuned that the violent appeal of these machines would be lost on participants and fans alike.

What would be the point of a TF/D that's no quicker than a Pro Stock car?

Personally, I'd like most of the restrictions that are intended to and do hamper performance, to go away. Return to racing a full 1320 ft., and see what these cars are truly capable of. Of course that would mean eliminating some of the tracks with a short run-off, from the tour, unless they can improve their facilities.

Anyway it's a week off, then on to the western swing.

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#3417668 - 07/07/14 09:50 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
i really enjoy your ideas O2SE. but isnt the point to have TWO car at full power at the end of the track? when one car drops out it is NOT a race,. i remember in the late 60s the only regulations on a AA / FD was safety. and i really miss double engine dragsters. one cat had a double engine Buick straight 8s. and the JR fulers was fun to watch, like a 300 inch injected on nitro. sorry i guess iam still living in the past.

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#3418385 - 07/08/14 02:47 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
Well, the idea is to win the event, and ultimately the Championship.

These care are tuned right to the limit of what we think the track will hold. Every team is going to try and put down the absolute best run they possibly can, conditions permitting. Ideally, the car is right on the verge of smoking the tires, all the way down the track.



As for the late '60's, I wish I could've experienced the Dragracing scene back then, but the late 60's is when I was born. I have had the pleasure of hearing many stories about those times, from numerous people that were racing back then.

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#3418441 - 07/08/14 03:44 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
the first drag race i was at was the first NHRA nationals in greatbend ks 1955. course i was only 7 years old. but i remember being there.

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#3419452 - 07/09/14 11:40 AM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: 02SE]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4273
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Return to racing a full 1320 ft., and see what these cars are truly capable of.


Agree X10! 1000 ft drags are abominable.
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#3419949 - 07/09/14 07:27 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
win the championship? shouldn't be to hard when ONE teem has half of the cars at the track.

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#3435342 - 07/25/14 01:54 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
chestand Offline


Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 126
Loc: Kansas City
I began going to AHRA events in the early 70's. Things were quite different then. 1500 horsepower was the oft quoted figure for fuel motors then. Now, it's 10,000 horsepower. Now, they're racing the track. Track conditions change greatly with temperature and the NHRA does its best to present a good surface to all the racers. I attended Friday qualifying at Topeka in May and was impressed with what I saw - most all fully powered passes in both TF and FC. And the total auditory/sensory experience of the fuel motor cars. It's something everyone should experience once in their lives. Short of a Saturn V launch, there's nothing like it.

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#3435375 - 07/25/14 02:18 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
Just an FYI, the 10,000 HP figure that is now widely mentioned, is still on the low end. It's in the vicinity, but still far too low most of the time.

The way we know this, is measuring the driveline shaft deflection. If a driveline of known strength deflects X amount, we know there is X amount of torque being applied to it. From there it's a simple mathematical equation to determine the HP.

Of course we don't measure shaft deflection to determine the HP. That is just a side effect of data-logging the clutch performance.

I used to laugh at the often quoted 8000 HP figure. For at least the last eight years, it has been far beyond that.

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#3435455 - 07/25/14 03:35 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: 02SE]
SteveSRT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15111
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Just an FYI, the 10,000 HP figure that is now widely mentioned, is still on the low end. It's in the vicinity, but still far too low most of the time.

The way we know this, is measuring the driveline shaft deflection. If a driveline of known strength deflects X amount, we know there is X amount of torque being applied to it. From there it's a simple mathematical equation to determine the HP.

Of course we don't measure shaft deflection to determine the HP. That is just a side effect of data-logging the clutch performance.

I used to laugh at the often quoted 8000 HP figure. For at least the last eight years, it has been far beyond that.


Little known details! Thanks for those gems. Maybe one day we'll have a dyno for ya. Those runs would be ferocious...
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#3435551 - 07/25/14 05:20 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: 02SE]
route66mike Offline


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 147
Loc: Ft. Collins
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Just an FYI, the 10,000 HP figure that is now widely mentioned, is still on the low end. It's in the vicinity, but still far too low most of the time.

The way we know this, is measuring the driveline shaft deflection. If a driveline of known strength deflects X amount, we know there is X amount of torque being applied to it. From there it's a simple mathematical equation to determine the HP.

Of course we don't measure shaft deflection to determine the HP. That is just a side effect of data-logging the clutch performance.

I used to laugh at the often quoted 8000 HP figure. For at least the last eight years, it has been far beyond that.


How were you measuring driveshaft twist position? Strain gauges?

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#3435972 - 07/26/14 01:28 AM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: route66mike]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
Well... lets just say there is more than one way to measure the torque being passed through a driveline.

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#3447348 - 08/05/14 10:40 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
Rose Offline


Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 20
Loc: California,US
Racing is using more fuel than ordinary driving. One question, is the fuel tank of motor bikes,cars are bigger than ordinary vehicle?

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#3448076 - 08/06/14 04:29 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: Rose]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
Originally Posted By: Rose
Racing is using more fuel than ordinary driving.


It is? Additionally, what is "ordinary" driving?

Originally Posted By: Rose
One question, is the fuel tank of motor bikes,cars are bigger than ordinary vehicle?


What motor bikes and cars? What is an "ordinary" vehicle?


Edited by 02SE (08/06/14 04:30 PM)

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#3448558 - 08/07/14 06:18 AM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: 02SE]
chestand Offline


Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 126
Loc: Kansas City
I have no earthly idea what the question/statement means. It reads as if written by a person for whom English is at best a second language.

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#3448797 - 08/07/14 11:57 AM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
bdcardinal Online   content


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6603
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Fuel cell size is usually determined by the regulations set by the sanctioning body.
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#3448846 - 08/07/14 01:20 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: chestand]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 350
Loc: The Canyons
Originally Posted By: chestand
I have no earthly idea what the question/statement means. It reads as if written by a person for whom English is at best a second language.


I agree with you. That's why I asked for clarification.

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#3451621 - 08/10/14 03:27 PM Re: NHRA drag racing june 15. [Re: morris]
gman2304 Online   content


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 732
Loc: n.c.
I stopped watching and attending NHRA events when they went to the 1,000 foot mark for the fuel cars.

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