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#3400880 - 06/18/14 07:23 PM is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 589
Loc: quebec canada
I know all oil say they do.but i only visually my self on the bottle saw the rotella t6 0w40 having the cj-4 and sn in the sae thingy.i think mobil delvac1 le5w30 also is.but are there other?this list is probably gona be short .would be a good idea to know them all
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#3400887 - 06/18/14 07:29 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
widman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3034
Loc: Bolivia
It does not really mean anything. You can tack just about any valid gasoline category on the end of a CJ-4. It will still kill your catalytic converter.
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#3400895 - 06/18/14 07:38 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 589
Loc: quebec canada
Please lets not dot the i and line the t on this thread.just a friendly list of the known oil that have sn and cj-4 or more on the bottle the way the standard ask .
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#3400916 - 06/18/14 08:08 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: widman]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 24706
Loc: Illinoistan
Originally Posted By: widman
You can tack just about any valid gasoline category on the end of a CJ-4. It will still kill your catalytic converter.


Why would it kill his cat? Rotella actually has weaker add pack and lower sulfated ash than something like M1 0w-40 which is API SN rated for gasoline engines. I don't hear any gasoline engine cats dying by the dozen due to using it.
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#3400972 - 06/18/14 09:12 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: Quattro Pete]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 8948
Loc: OH
and yet, Shell has said that Rotella should not be used in catalyst equipped vehicles.
Why?
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#3400976 - 06/18/14 09:15 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6543
Loc: Florida
XXw40 SN oils don't have the same SAPS limit that XXw30 and XXw20 SN oils have. Since most conventional HDEO is 15w40 and most synthetic HDEO is 5w40, that would be why there are API SN approved diesel engine oils.

That is why you can have an HDEO that still meets SN standards.

This is also why you may find more than 800 PPM phosphorous in 5w40 or 0w40 oils formulated for European gasoline engines, and some light European diesels such as the ones found in VWs.
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#3400977 - 06/18/14 09:16 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 24706
Loc: Illinoistan
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
and yet, Shell has said that Rotella should not be used in catalyst equipped vehicles.
Why?


Yes, it's puzzling, especially that they list this under Rotella's benefits section:
Quote:

Emissions System Compatibility
Advanced low-ash formulation helps control blocking of or poisoning of exhaust after-treatment devices, helping maintain vehicle emission compliance and engine fuel efficiency.


If Rotella should not be used in catalyst equipped vehicles, then why isn't there a big warning label on the bottle stating so?
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#3401044 - 06/18/14 10:07 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
MinamiKotaro Offline


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 573
Loc: TN
Mag1 5w-40 All Fleet is CJ and SN.
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#3401065 - 06/18/14 10:26 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 589
Loc: quebec canada
Ty for the mag.
You cant label an oil sn if it doesnt pass the test required.last i checked catalysor was one requirement.i ll need to look into the sn standard tho
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#3401076 - 06/18/14 10:41 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 589
Loc: quebec canada
http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/api-sn.php according to this,it look like the viscosity rotella t6 0w40 is in a gray area. It is in the others.so basicly this means only mobil delvac1 le5w30 meet all sn and trucking criteria?outch .talk about highly specialised field of work.from what i can understand .for the sn oil to be catalyst friendly it has to be ressource conserving(sn-rc)dont we love it when there are gray area
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#3401080 - 06/18/14 10:43 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: Quattro Pete]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2321
Loc: Upper Midwest
"Should not" or "not recommended" (when there are less risky alternatives from a manufacturer's point of view) and "DO NOT" are two different things. I'm going to make a guess and say that as long as your engine is not a huge oil burner it won't make any difference. Many of the dual rated oils are also marketed as "a single oil for your mixed fleet", so on one hand they promote it but on the other they discourage it.

I think that like most any consumer product, you don't have complete control over its use once it gets into the marketplace. As a result you do what you can through labeling and product recommendations to mitigate any potential problems. From the manufacturer's point of view there are less problematic oils available that they would rather you use.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
and yet, Shell has said that Rotella should not be used in catalyst equipped vehicles.
Why?

Yes, it's puzzling, especially that they list this under Rotella's benefits section:
Quote:
Emissions System Compatibility
Advanced low-ash formulation helps control blocking of or poisoning of exhaust after-treatment devices, helping maintain vehicle emission compliance and engine fuel efficiency.

If Rotella should not be used in catalyst equipped vehicles, then why isn't there a big warning label on the bottle stating so?
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#3401103 - 06/18/14 11:32 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: fdcg27]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 10967
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
and yet, Shell has said that Rotella should not be used in catalyst equipped vehicles. Why?

Shell is nuts, that's why. They get a modern spark ignition certification yet warn to not use it in vehicles that need SN oil. Go figure.

Actually, though, most of the oil companies warn against North American customers using dual rated oils in catalyst equipped vehicles. I've seen that from Chevron and Petro-Canada, too. XOM seems to have less of a problem with it, and recommends Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 (and other HDEOs) for high performance gasoline applications.

yvon_la: As I stated elsewhere already today to much the same question, if an HDEO is relatively new, it'll probably have an SN rating. If it was something that existed in CI-4 and CI-4+, the upgrade to CJ-4 was the big one, and SM remained. HDEOs that are more recently available in North America seem to have the SN specification. And no, Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 is not resource conserving. It never will be, either. It cannot be GF-5 rated. It's low in phosphorous, but its HTHS is 3.5 or greater as per its CJ-4 specification, which is listed first on the bottle. Therefore, its HTHS is too high to obtain ILSAC certification. Listing CJ-4 before SM or SN allows them to get away with higher phosphorous, if they so choose. Lacking ILSAC certification altogether is because of the thickness that goes with CJ-4.

We've been through this before. An oil can be SN, but not resource conserving (ILSAC rated). We see this in monogrades, and in multigrade 40s and 50s, and certain multigrade 30s.

But, to be ILSAC rated, it has to have the API rating with it. You can have SM. You can have SN. You can have SM/GF-4 and SN/GF-5. But, you cannot have GF-4 or GF-5 on their own. Again, though, you will never see a resource conserving (or ILSAC rated) CJ-4 oil. The specifications are mutually exclusive.
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3401109 - 06/18/14 11:47 PM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 589
Loc: quebec canada
Ya thats where rotella got me.just saw the bottle on the website.i ll double check tomrrow in store where i am but it look like you are right it is an sn/cj-4 oil but isnt ressource conserving .wich is one very important thing for cars now a day .ty for help .i hadnt understood before.
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#3401127 - 06/19/14 12:22 AM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 882
Loc: Kellogg, IA
I may be somewhat out of the loop, but I have not seen a diesel OEM requirement for SN. Just CJ-4, or one of their proprietary specifications. So I am not sure why it would matter if a HDEO was both CJ-4 and SN. Maybe someone could elaborate further. I just get a CJ-4 for my diesels, and an SN for my gassers. But this will all be changing again soon anyway. The new HDEO standard will be out in the next couple of years and will throw everything off. Right now it is being referred to as PC-11, but they have not confirmed that will be the actual classification number.
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#3401165 - 06/19/14 02:33 AM Re: is shell the only one with a cj-4 & sn oil out the [Re: yvon_la]
mongo161 Offline


Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 3198
Loc: Coney Island, NY
My vehicle is a 1997 T4R, SR5 and I've used quite a few 15w-40 HD engine oils, with both the SL, CJ-4/SM designations, usually blended with some 0w-20 or 5w-20 SM, PCMO with no ill effects.

The sole reasoning for using the HDEO was because of store clearance and/or rebates as an added perk. Lots of the HDEO, after clearance and rebates, was very close to FREE or actually Free, except for postage.

My vehicle is equipped with a Cat Converter and seems to run fine after many OCI's of HDEO blended mix.

I've used Shell Rotella T-5, T-6, Triple Protection 15w-40 and 10w-30 blended with Formula Shell 5w-20 API-SM and SN in both conventional and synthetic for PCMO. All the Shell HD engine oils had the CJ-4/SM or the SL designations on the label.

I've also used quite a bit of Mobil Delvac 15w-40, Chevron LE 15w40, Castrol and Valvoline blue in 15w-40, all had the API-SM or SL designations,.....all were blended with some light synthetic/conventional PCMO in 5w20 or 0w-20 weights.....usually all in the same family.

So for SOPUS to put the notification on the label, for users of the T-6 product, about potential Cat converter damage is just a CYA for disclosure. I would never attempt to put any HDEO in a modern engine designated for API-SN PCMO, unless it was OK, via the owners manual.

My vehicle runs very smooth with HDEO blended with a light synthetic. In fact, I would not be surprised if the HDEO blend has kept the engine exceptionally clean, after 2 Kreen treatments. IMO...you really can't beat the powerful detergent add packs, formulated into these HDEO's. That's my 2 cents on the use of HDEO in older engines.


Edited by mongo161 (06/19/14 02:40 AM)
Edit Reason: Punctuation and Spelling
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