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#3392807 - 06/09/14 08:16 AM How can changing tires be so difficult?!?
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Rrrrrrrr...









When I went to have them look at warranty, talked to the tire tech, was very comfortable, they had put the car on a lift, etc. this time I go to check on it and it's jacked on one quarter, buggering the lift point. When I go to complain, the tech says they'll get a refinished wheel or strip and repaint mine. No way. The car has 10k miles and has never had a tire removed. When they worked on it for the warranty check, they did perfect. After I complained, the GM came out and asked me if I was serious. Really? That's an unacceptable thing to ask, period. Of course I'm serious, damage that wasn't there before is unacceptable, especially if I'm paying for the mount and balance.

I'm incredibly annoyed. This was a Goodyear store, so I went there thinking they would have the latest and best maintained equipment, and take greater care.

Any suggestions on how to take this to satisfaction?

A refinished wheel is unacceptable. I want a new OEM replacement. I also want the old wheel. Why? Not that I have use for it or space, but I don't want a wheel from a refinisher; and a core to me would be indication of that.

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#3392814 - 06/09/14 08:21 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
gregk24 Offline


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 2928
Loc: FL, USA
Take it back! Not sure if they will do anything since I am guessing you left their lot before confronting them about the problem. Also, those are some dirty rims 0.o
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#3392817 - 06/09/14 08:27 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
barkingspider Offline


Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 373
Loc: socal
Sorry, broh. That sucks. Good luck
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#3392821 - 06/09/14 08:30 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Lol, I had just cleaned them like a week before. Not even 500 miles!

I did confront immediately. Also called Goodyear corporate before I left. The advice was to call the dealer and they (the store) will do an insurance claim.

How hard can it be to train best practices? Lots of cars have alloys with no outer rim.

Are rfts really that much harder to get on?

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#3392838 - 06/09/14 08:49 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 11454
Loc: apple valley, ca
those lopro tires can be a real bugger to get on and off
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#3392842 - 06/09/14 08:57 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
bepperb Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 4760
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Lots of cars have alloys with no outer rim.

Are rfts really that much harder to get on?


My minivan has no outer rim, when they're OEM on a minivan I'd say they are in the mainstream. I'm not sure if the low profile or runflat make them harder to mount, but if I had gouges like that I'd be speaking with someone (and I would be serious).

Though Goodyear probably wouldn't be my first choice. Was the dealer significantly more expensive (I have ideas of what BMW service visits cost and it isn't pleasant, but I really have no idea)?

But yeah, huge scrapes are unacceptable. The jack point would bother me, though I guess the whole point of them is to be a sacrificial item anyway.
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#3392845 - 06/09/14 09:00 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1287
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Ya. Low profile can be a pain. Frustrating for everyone for sure.
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#3392847 - 06/09/14 09:01 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 5640
Loc: Ontario, Canada
It probably wouldn't hurt the next time, to inform them that if the wheel gets marked up, they are buying a new one, at any tire place or dealership.
I imagine most people may grumble over that much damage but not actually make the store replace a rim over it.
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#3392848 - 06/09/14 09:02 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
But when you go to a corporate store that supposedly specializing in hi performance tires and runflats... One would expect some competence. When I went the first time they were real good.

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#3392852 - 06/09/14 09:05 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
More damage...


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#3392853 - 06/09/14 09:06 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
jeepman3071 Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1750
Loc: Storrs, Connecticut
You are right demanding a new wheel. The problem is nobody has pride in their work anymore.

We went through the same thing with my mom's 2011 Fit. The car had under 10,000 miles at the time, and had a dash rattle. My mom brought it to the dealer to have them diagnose the noise. The next day the car was "ready". They never found the rattle, and she had one different looking tire and a gouged aluminum rim. The dealer first tried to blame it on us, but the truth later came out that they "drove where they maybe shouldn't have" meaning the car went off the road and they had a blow out. Needless to say many phone calls were made to managers and supervisors. The dealership first claimed they could "buff out" the gouge in the wheel. I told them I'd like to watch since I've never seen anyone buff out a scratch that deep. They later replaced the wheel and both front tires so they would wear evenly. We later had a friend's shop check the front end and underside for any damage due to the car being off road.

All of this could have been avoided if the techs were careful and took pride in their work.
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#3392858 - 06/09/14 09:08 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 5640
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Maybe you got the new guy? Probably places like this have a hard time keeping someone who will do a good job everytime, as they probably just want to pay for a "tire changer"?
Good thing for them, they didn't do all 4 tires!
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#3392865 - 06/09/14 09:17 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: IndyIan]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25916
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Maybe you got the new guy? Probably places like this have a hard time keeping someone who will do a good job everytime, as they probably just want to pay for a "tire changer"?

I think you're spot on. Most shops will have an experienced good guy, but also some new apprentice that's just learning. If you get a new guy, these are the results.

Finding a shop that consistently does a great job with tire mounts is not easy.
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#3392872 - 06/09/14 09:25 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: Quattro Pete]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Maybe you got the new guy? Probably places like this have a hard time keeping someone who will do a good job everytime, as they probably just want to pay for a "tire changer"?

I think you're spot on. Most shops will have an experienced good guy, but also some new apprentice that's just learning. If you get a new guy, these are the results.

Finding a shop that consistently does a great job with tire mounts is not easy.




Their service manager did the work. One can understand that they may not be doing work every day, but one would think they would be more careful...

Id imagine that the dealer will be a bit more careful, though Im sure thats an assumption proven wrong before too...

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#3392878 - 06/09/14 09:38 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12539
Loc: Chicago, IL
Didn't you have a wheel that already needed refinishing? I'd just get the wheels redone professionally and send him the invoice.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
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#3392888 - 06/09/14 09:50 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20740
Loc: Colorado Springs
In my experience, this kind of service is par for the course at tire shops. Tire mounting machines always scratch tires. Now, the jacking up the car and gouging the lift point is sloppy workmanship, which, as Jeepman indicated, is also par for the course these days.

There's an old saying that is very true in today's "services" industry: "If you pay peanuts, you end up with monkeys."

Anyone who truly cars about the work they do to the point of trying to not scratch wheels and mess up vehicle lift point pads wouldn't last 10 minutes at a retail tire store.

Find a reputable shop that has been in business for many years that specializes in German cars that also does tire work; they might actually care.

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#3392896 - 06/09/14 10:03 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
zzyzzx Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1702
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
If you had normal sizes rims and tires instead of low profile, I bet this would not happen.

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#3392901 - 06/09/14 10:09 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
Some people genuinely don't like others to have nice things, and will treat their property accordingly.

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#3392908 - 06/09/14 10:23 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: zzyzzx]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 5640
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
If you had normal sizes rims and tires instead of low profile, I bet this would not happen.

Well not in my experience, there's always flaked paint or scratches when I get tires changed even on steel rims. It's a very minor cosmetic issue and on my cars, I'm happy if they look good from 20'... I'll run them until they are done, or resale is not affected by rim scratches.
The owners of new bmw convertibles probably shouldn't be assumed to place the same indifference on minor cosmetic issues as I do though.
_________________________
07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 92km M1 5W20
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#3392916 - 06/09/14 10:27 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: zzyzzx]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25916
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
If you had normal sizes rims and tires instead of low profile, I bet this would not happen.

Define "normal size rims and tires." Over the years, there has been a push by all manufacturers toward lower profile tires. Something that you would consider low profile 10-20 years ago is fairly typical/normal today.

With the market changing, tire shops need to keep up and learn how to deal with these without butchering your rims.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
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#3392924 - 06/09/14 10:39 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
LT4 Vette Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12508
Loc: USA
JHZR2,

Unless you buy tire mounting equipment and do it yourself at home....
There is no way to avoid idiots from scratching you wheels.

Did you tell the tire tech not to scratch your car, wheels, get interior greasy?

I do it all the time.

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#3392936 - 06/09/14 10:53 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: LT4 Vette]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
JHZR2,

Unless you buy tire mounting equipment and do it yourself at home....
There is no way to avoid idiots from scratching you wheels.

Did you tell the tire tech not to scratch your car, wheels, get interior greasy?

I do it all the time.


No, I watched them like a hawk the first time, and the advisor and tire tech did a good job. Covered the seats and mats (car was clean this time, I guess some stuff is SOP), and was comfortable. When I saw the service manager working the car this time, I figured they were taking special interest in the effort. I also saw his car, which I noted to have low profile tires on rimless wheels.

I was wrong, but I see zero excuses on their part. Seems like that is the case, assuming they pay up satisfactorily. Seems they will make this an insurance claim, that's why they have it after all.

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#3392939 - 06/09/14 10:58 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: Quattro Pete]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
If you had normal sizes rims and tires instead of low profile, I bet this would not happen.

Define "normal size rims and tires." Over the years, there has been a push by all manufacturers toward lower profile tires. Something that you would consider low profile 10-20 years ago is fairly typical/normal today.

With the market changing, tire shops need to keep up and learn how to deal with these without butchering your rims.



Exactly. Walking into work, I surveyed the cars and trucks to see how many had wheels like mine. Tons. Only trucks and some cars with steelies have an outer lip on the rim. Even lots of trucks now have alloys with smooth outer lips.

Low profile? I see plenty of Mazdas and other cars with ever lower profile tires. Sure mine are runflats, but is a 40 series tire on a bmw any different than one on any other car? Nope.

As mentioned above, all manufacturers are going to these low profile tires. The fact that the wheel was messed up not just in one spot, but many, indicates to me that this was just sloppy work, perhaps coupled with incorrect equipment.

I don't know what I'm talking about, but I suspect that on wheels without an outer rim lip, that tires should be mounted from the backside.

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#3392940 - 06/09/14 10:59 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
oldhp Offline


Registered: 06/28/12
Posts: 820
Loc: Southern Illinois
The newest tire machines do not touch the wheel at all. My "tire guy" has one, does 'vettes, BMWs, huge mud tires all on one machine. These guys don't have one or they don't know how to use it.
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#3392952 - 06/09/14 11:14 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: dparm]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: dparm
Didn't you have a wheel that already needed refinishing? I'd just get the wheels redone professionally and send him the invoice.


The marks on that one wheel were so small that I'm still weighing my options. This is far more obnoxious and not my fault...

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#3392954 - 06/09/14 11:15 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: oldhp]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: oldhp
The newest tire machines do not touch the wheel at all. My "tire guy" has one, does 'vettes, BMWs, huge mud tires all on one machine. These guys don't have one or they don't know how to use it.


Yeah I specifically went there to go to a corporate store who claimed to have a specialist for low profile, performance and run flat tires.

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#3392956 - 06/09/14 11:21 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Fleetmon Offline


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 1060
Loc: Pa
I don't blame you for being upset....I certainly would be. IMO refinishing wheels isok and they usually look great but I've only had mine done due to road debris....in this case I would push for new wheels and only after creating a storm iMIGHT accept them being refinished. Some Service Manager!
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#3392963 - 06/09/14 11:28 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
pottymouth Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 483
Loc: NJ
An enthusiast should never take their car to a chain store. The marks on your wheels would go completely unnoticed by the vast majority of the motoring public. These stores are under tremendous pressure to move a car out fast and start on the next one. They will cut corners wherever possible to keep the numbers where they need to be. Since most people are OK with that, it has become SOP.

I understand your frustration, but unless you are a long-time customer I don't see you getting a brand new wheel out of this. Legally, all they have to do is make you whole. The insurance company will consider a refinished wheel to be whole. The wheels weren't brand new when you drove in, regardless of condition. Sorry, but that is how insurance companies work. Especially when you are not their insured. If you make a big enough stink, you might get lucky but I wouldn't count on it.

For the future, find an independent enthusiast shop that gets its business through word of mouth. Find a BMW club and they can make recommendations. A guy like that is far more likely to care about your car and his reputation than a chain store employee who is likely to be somewhere else in a year or two.

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#3392988 - 06/09/14 12:10 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
geeman789 Offline


Registered: 04/13/14
Posts: 233
Loc: Northern Alberta, Canada
Tire mechanics are one step up from the bottom lube techs, and most are paid as such. You need to find a performance tire shop who does work like this all the time... and no big chain store qualifies...!

And, yes, low profile runflats are as tough as it gets in the tire business... you almost NEED a specialized machine to handle it, or HUGE patience and experience.

And obsessing about small scratches and nicks on wheels WILL drive you batty... nearly every tire change I have ever had done has left some sort of mark. It sucks, but it is also reality...
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2011 SUBARU Impreza AWD 5 spd.


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#3392994 - 06/09/14 12:26 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: pottymouth]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
An enthusiast should never take their car to a chain store. The marks on your wheels would go completely unnoticed by the vast majority of the motoring public. These stores are under tremendous pressure to move a car out fast and start on the next one. They will cut corners wherever possible to keep the numbers where they need to be. Since most people are OK with that, it has become SOP.

I understand your frustration, but unless you are a long-time customer I don't see you getting a brand new wheel out of this. Legally, all they have to do is make you whole. The insurance company will consider a refinished wheel to be whole. The wheels weren't brand new when you drove in, regardless of condition. Sorry, but that is how insurance companies work. Especially when you are not their insured. If you make a big enough stink, you might get lucky but I wouldn't count on it.

For the future, find an independent enthusiast shop that gets its business through word of mouth. Find a BMW club and they can make recommendations. A guy like that is far more likely to care about your car and his reputation than a chain store employee who is likely to be somewhere else in a year or two.



Perhaps but this was a warranty claim and not every place is going to work on that. I should have asked for the tire then taken it to be handled myself.

Problem really is that every place says they do it all, when really they don't.

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#3393003 - 06/09/14 12:40 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: pottymouth]
Unicorn01 Offline


Registered: 06/01/12
Posts: 16
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
An enthusiast should never take their car to a chain store. The marks on your wheels would go completely unnoticed by the vast majority of the motoring public. These stores are under tremendous pressure to move a car out fast and start on the next one. They will cut corners wherever possible to keep the numbers where they need to be. Since most people are OK with that, it has become SOP.

I understand your frustration, but unless you are a long-time customer I don't see you getting a brand new wheel out of this. Legally, all they have to do is make you whole. The insurance company will consider a refinished wheel to be whole. The wheels weren't brand new when you drove in, regardless of condition. Sorry, but that is how insurance companies work. Especially when you are not their insured. If you make a big enough stink, you might get lucky but I wouldn't count on it.

For the future, find an independent enthusiast shop that gets its business through word of mouth. Find a BMW club and they can make recommendations. A guy like that is far more likely to care about your car and his reputation than a chain store employee who is likely to be somewhere else in a year or two.



You have a valid point based on reality, but the store still should not have screwed up his rims or his lift point. The lift point is almost worse since that can't be blamed on an automatic machine. A person had to place the lift in the wrong spot to do that.

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#3393004 - 06/09/14 12:42 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
bowlofturtle Offline


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 419
Loc: Chicago
a series 40 tire is a little harder the normal, but a 40 series paired with RFT. Those are a PAIN. Last time i had to mount one, i needed a 2nd person and extra tire spoons. And even then it was a bear.

With 10k miles i dont know why you wanted to go to a chain in the first place. I normally would pay extra for special shops that do high end wheels. I normally go for ones that sell the 22" chromes.


Them offering you to refinish the wheel is pretty much standard practice. Getting a brand new wheel... well i've seen it done before but not without a fight. What is posted is correct, insurance claim will make you whole (refinished). Try fighting insurance companies when you get into accidents, only enthusiast shop will try to fight to get you OEM bumpers and in same cases you pay a little out of pocket for them too.

I really wish you have good luck in this. I would be just as [censored]. But i've been on the tech side and on your side of it. Its just a bad spot to be in overall.
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#3393005 - 06/09/14 12:48 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
mrsilv04 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 6456
Loc: Illinois
When I take any vehicle in to have tires mounted, I make sure that the wheels are clean, shiny and spotless.

That way, any sort of damage will be obvious to anyone involved.

That is just 500 miles worth of brake dust up around the lug nuts?
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#3393014 - 06/09/14 12:57 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: mrsilv04]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
When I take any vehicle in to have tires mounted, I make sure that the wheels are clean, shiny and spotless.

That way, any sort of damage will be obvious to anyone involved.

That is just 500 miles worth of brake dust up around the lug nuts?


How clean or not the lug nut holes are is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, the wheels were spotless when I took the car in the first time for this reason.

And if its a matter of cleaning wheels or playing with or reading bedtime stories to my 19 month old - the baby wins every time, regardless of how much I like a cleaned up car exterior.

So actually the dirt on the wheels was less than 500 miles, probably no more than 250. Yes, these are wide open wheels with big rotors and pads that make a lot of dust.

Which again is irrelevant. I saw the damage clear enough, regardless of the level of dirt on the wheels. It was obvious to me, to the guy who did the job and to the service manager. the other damage was also visible enough to be quite obvious.

The company and insurance will bleed enough in terms of man hours working with this to make it their while to spend the money and give me the new wheel. I can be sure of that. So far they have not given me any issue about the new wheel other than the first tech who was trained to say that it was good enough. Even my phone calls with corporate.

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#3393024 - 06/09/14 01:13 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: pottymouth]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12539
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
An enthusiast should never take their car to a chain store. The marks on your wheels would go completely unnoticed by the vast majority of the motoring public. These stores are under tremendous pressure to move a car out fast and start on the next one. They will cut corners wherever possible to keep the numbers where they need to be. Since most people are OK with that, it has become SOP.



I have never had a problem with Discount Tire. I always stand there and watch, so they're probably being more careful. But I don't do it in an annoying way -- I am friendly with the guys and even chat with them about the car when they ask.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3393030 - 06/09/14 01:19 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
RANDYZ Offline


Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Florida
Wife hit a pothole and bent a rim on her 2005 Maxima. Purchased a refinished wheel to replace it with. Looked great until about 6 months later when the paint started peeling off.

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#3393039 - 06/09/14 01:26 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: RANDYZ]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: RANDYZ
Wife hit a pothole and bent a rim on her 2005 Maxima. Purchased a refinished wheel to replace it with. Looked great until about 6 months later when the paint started peeling off.


Exactly. Not exactly beingmade whole, except in some bean counter's eye and only at day zero.

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#3393043 - 06/09/14 01:39 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
hattaresguy Offline


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 5133
Loc: CT
Typical chain shop work. Hate to say it but you need to find a real tire shop or a high end shop.

A place that has exotic cars in the bays with $10k+ sets of wheels wont do that. Imagine how they would cry if that was a $2k Renntech wheel?

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#3393048 - 06/09/14 01:42 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
rshaw125 Offline


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 2524
Loc: Raleigh ,NC CSA
Take the car to the dealer next time. Having an expensive car is expensive. It does not pay to be thrifty when you have an expensive car.
_________________________
2012 Porsche Carrera S
1995 Plymouth Voyager

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#3393057 - 06/09/14 01:50 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 351
Loc: The Canyons
I'm a former ASE Master Tech. There are A LOT of unskilled, clumsy, apathetic hacks out there "working" on cars.

If you can find a place that is careful and conscientious with customer cars, consider yourself lucky and stick with them.

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#3393067 - 06/09/14 02:03 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
michaelluscher Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1331
Loc: NYC
Going to a chain was problem 1
Going to a Goodyear chain was problem 2
Buying a "performance and or enthusiasts" car, and taking it to a chain was problem 3.

This wasn't the one on Parsonage Rd in Edison near the Menlo park Mall was it?

I hate to say this, but when you bought a BMW, you should have understood that sometimes you have to pay specialist tire shops or dealer prices for the service they require.
I see this far too often, and it often ends as this did, usually worse.
If compound on a rag doesn't remove the scratches
.....get them to replace whatever wheels are damaged.
_________________________
'06 Toyota Camry SE V6 3MZ-FE 51k
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'13 Chrysler 300 3.6 Pentastar 35k

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#3393075 - 06/09/14 02:14 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
LT4 Vette Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12508
Loc: USA
I actually think some tire techs are jealous when they have to get all greasy working on a fancy car and accidentally damage a car, over fill motor oil, wrong fluids, etc....etc....

I agree with contacting a BMW or Benz forum and ask which tire shop specializes in mounting 18, 20, 22 inch wheels. When a tire tech drives my car into the bay I politely remind him not to damage my car / wheels.

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#3393076 - 06/09/14 02:14 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Swift101 Offline


Registered: 11/14/13
Posts: 233
Loc: NYC
STS tire messed up all my rims like this, they sent them out to get repaired thankfully. I just plasti dipped my wheels after it happened.
_________________________
2013 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T SE
M1 0W-40 : OEM Filter
5k OCI


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#3393079 - 06/09/14 02:17 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: michaelluscher]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25916
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
Going to a chain was problem 1
Going to a Goodyear chain was problem 2
Buying a "performance and or enthusiasts" car, and taking it to a chain was problem 3.

I hate to say this, but when you bought a BMW, you should have understood that sometimes you have to pay specialist tire shops or dealer prices for the service they require.

He didn't take it there by choice. One of his Dunlop tires had a defect. The way to get it taken care of was to take it back to a Dunlop/Goodyear facility.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3393100 - 06/09/14 02:45 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
geeman789 Offline


Registered: 04/13/14
Posts: 233
Loc: Northern Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Lol, I had just cleaned them like a week before. Not even 500 miles!

I did confront immediately. Also called Goodyear corporate before I left. The advice was to call the dealer and they (the store) will do an insurance claim.

How hard can it be to train best practices? Lots of cars have alloys with no outer rim.

Are rfts really that much harder to get on?


Dirty wheels... lol... obviously the poster who is dissing the "dirty" wheels has never had a German car or one with high performance pads... stand on your brakes a couple of times, and wheels look like that...!

I laugh at the owners who NEVER clean their wheels, you know, that shiny Mercedes with the silver back wheels, and the completely black, will never be silver again fronts... and these people DO! complain to the dealers...

As for runflats, you might want to find a way to try a non-run flat high perf. tire to see what it drives like... hint hint, you wont want to put runflats back on...!

Runflats typically ride terrible, and are heavy. And if you do drive on one while flat, the tire is STILL ruined, and now you have to buy another anyway... good luck with that sometimes...

If you want to really irritate a tire tech, bring in a set of all black alloys for a tire change... the black wheels, which are the HOT! Item at the moment, show every scratch /scrape in a big way... and if you curb one, they look brutal for all to see...!

If you change tires , you will, at some point, end up with marks on the wheels... just like you will get a rock in the windscreen, or chips in the paint, or scuffs in the leather etc. Keeping a car in mint condition will drive a man insane...where as keeping a car in good condition, and enjoying the drive, is a much better option.

Having obsessed for many years, I am past that stage of my life... and if I looked at your car, as well as probably 98/100 other people, we wouldn't even notice... brand new wheels look brand new for about a week...!

I agree, the damage should never have been caused in the first place... but worry about more important things, like your child. And enjoy that first time when he/she is the one who dings / scratches / scrapes your car...usually that is about the time when "good" condition starts to overcome the obsession with "mint" condition...

Cheers...





Edited by geeman789 (06/09/14 02:53 PM)
_________________________
2011 SUBARU Impreza AWD 5 spd.


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#3393118 - 06/09/14 03:03 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: rshaw125]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Take the car to the dealer next time. Having an expensive car is expensive. It does not pay to be thrifty when you have an expensive car.


Not sure how much clearer I can be that this was a warranty action from Goodyear/Dunlop corporate.

I have my other shops that I use which Im more comfortable with.

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#3393119 - 06/09/14 03:04 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11606
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Rrrrrrrr...

That's why every time I look at the big tool catalogs, I get tempted. It was nice when I could install and balance my tires myself.

I never scuffed up old style rims? How do they do this? I should show some pictures of my rims after getting a "professional" to install a proper patch. And people wonder why I'm still a proponent of the old rope style plugs.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3393120 - 06/09/14 03:06 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: geeman789]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Lol, I had just cleaned them like a week before. Not even 500 miles!

I did confront immediately. Also called Goodyear corporate before I left. The advice was to call the dealer and they (the store) will do an insurance claim.

How hard can it be to train best practices? Lots of cars have alloys with no outer rim.

Are rfts really that much harder to get on?


Dirty wheels... lol... obviously the poster who is dissing the "dirty" wheels has never had a German car or one with high performance pads... stand on your brakes a couple of times, and wheels look like that...!

I laugh at the owners who NEVER clean their wheels, you know, that shiny Mercedes with the silver back wheels, and the completely black, will never be silver again fronts... and these people DO! complain to the dealers...

As for runflats, you might want to find a way to try a non-run flat high perf. tire to see what it drives like... hint hint, you wont want to put runflats back on...!

Runflats typically ride terrible, and are heavy. And if you do drive on one while flat, the tire is STILL ruined, and now you have to buy another anyway... good luck with that sometimes...

If you want to really irritate a tire tech, bring in a set of all black alloys for a tire change... the black wheels, which are the HOT! Item at the moment, show every scratch /scrape in a big way... and if you curb one, they look brutal for all to see...!

If you change tires , you will, at some point, end up with marks on the wheels... just like you will get a rock in the windscreen, or chips in the paint, or scuffs in the leather etc. Keeping a car in mint condition will drive a man insane...where as keeping a car in good condition, and enjoying the drive, is a much better option.

Having obsessed for many years, I am past that stage of my life... and if I looked at your car, as well as probably 98/100 other people, we wouldn't even notice... brand new wheels look brand new for about a week...!

I agree, the damage should never have been caused in the first place... but worry about more important things, like your child. And enjoy that first time when he/she is the one who dings / scratches / scrapes your car...usually that is about the time when "good" condition starts to overcome the obsession with "mint" condition...

Cheers...





Good advice, thanks! Yes, when these tires go, Im not planning on staying with RFTs, unless there is going to be a handling penalty (my impression is no). Id rather carry a patch kit and bicycle pump, and get a better tire for less money. Especially after learning, as you mentioned, that RFTs are ruined after running on them for a bit.

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#3393127 - 06/09/14 03:15 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
shDK Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 545
Loc: Denmark
i really don,t get why some people here, apparently think. That choosing a tyre chain store was the costumers own fault. if a workshop accepts the work the costumer asks for. then the shop must do it, and the result should be spotless. if the shop make a damage by accident. they they will repair it or pay for it if they don,t have the skills them selves.

here we don,t have special wheel shops for big or high performance wheels. mostly wheelshops here do anything from sportscars to farming equipment and semi-trucks.


Edited by shDK (06/09/14 03:20 PM)

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#3393164 - 06/09/14 04:07 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: shDK]
pottymouth Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 483
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: shDK
i really don,t get why some people here, apparently think. That choosing a tyre chain store was the costumers own fault. if a workshop accepts the work the costumer asks for. then the shop must do it, and the result should be spotless. if the shop make a damage by accident. they they will repair it or pay for it if they don,t have the skills them selves.

here we don,t have special wheel shops for big or high performance wheels. mostly wheelshops here do anything from sportscars to farming equipment and semi-trucks.


It's not his fault, but it is reality. A chef wouldn't go to Olive Garden for a top-notch meal, a supermodel doesn't go to Supercuts and I'll bet that Wayne Carini doesn't drop a Duesenberg off at Maaco for a paint job. those establishments all have their place, but you would have to be crazy to think that they will be able to satisfy a discriminating customer. The OP is clearly fastidious about his car. Most people are not. He is not likely to be satisfied with the overall experience that a chain can provide. He might get lucky sometimes, but the fact is that the chains are all about volume. Also, their employees generally have little incentive to give a [censored] whereas your local independent stakes his living on his reputation.

I understand this was a warranty issue. It's a tough decision. You can get the warranty replacement you are entitled to knowing there is a better than average change your car will be mistreated. On the other hand, you can choose to pay for the tire yourself and have it mounted somewhere that you trust. I doubt the tire manufacturer would just hand someone the tire and let them go somewhere else, but stranger things have happened.

My wife is entitled to free car washes at the VW dealer anytime it is in for service. I know what kind of a wash that will be and the swirls and other paint marks it will leave. I have her refuse it every time. Sometimes that which is free isn't really free at all.

OP: I hope you get your new wheel.

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#3393193 - 06/09/14 04:44 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9407
Loc: OH
Is that a PLASTIC jacking point on this fine German machine?
_________________________
12 Accord LX 22K HGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 64K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 127K G-Oil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 98K Synpower 10W-30
95 BMW 318iC 149K Defy 10W-40

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#3393216 - 06/09/14 05:13 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: fdcg27]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12539
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Is that a PLASTIC jacking point on this fine German machine?



Tons of Audis have it too.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3393304 - 06/09/14 06:48 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: dparm]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9407
Loc: OH
Plastic?
Really?
Not too impressed.
Those of us who care often use a piece of nature's own composite, commonly called wood, between a metal jacking point and the jack pad itself.
No damage to either metal surface.
Back in the day, German cars also came with jacks that had a tube that you fitted into a larger tube in the rockers.
No damage to anything.
Since JHZR2 has both 123s and an e30, he's familiar with this.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 22K HGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 64K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 127K G-Oil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 98K Synpower 10W-30
95 BMW 318iC 149K Defy 10W-40

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#3393413 - 06/09/14 08:25 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
ehhhh, those tubes in rockers were rust points and prone to holding water. This is really better.

Actually what is really better is some small round pad on each corner...

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#3393552 - 06/09/14 10:49 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
mrsilv04 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 6456
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
When I take any vehicle in to have tires mounted, I make sure that the wheels are clean, shiny and spotless.

That way, any sort of damage will be obvious to anyone involved.

That is just 500 miles worth of brake dust up around the lug nuts?


How clean or not the lug nut holes are is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, the wheels were spotless when I took the car in the first time for this reason.

And if its a matter of cleaning wheels or playing with or reading bedtime stories to my 19 month old - the baby wins every time, regardless of how much I like a cleaned up car exterior.

So actually the dirt on the wheels was less than 500 miles, probably no more than 250. Yes, these are wide open wheels with big rotors and pads that make a lot of dust.

Which again is irrelevant. I saw the damage clear enough, regardless of the level of dirt on the wheels. It was obvious to me, to the guy who did the job and to the service manager. the other damage was also visible enough to be quite obvious.

The company and insurance will bleed enough in terms of man hours working with this to make it their while to spend the money and give me the new wheel. I can be sure of that. So far they have not given me any issue about the new wheel other than the first tech who was trained to say that it was good enough. Even my phone calls with corporate.


OK... then how about spending less time obsessing about the scratched wheel, or spending less time on this website... and spending more time with your 19 month old instead?

It's all about the priorities, right? Isn't that the point that you were trying to make to me?
_________________________

President of the Illinois chapter of 'Motorcyclists for Global Warming'.

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#3393746 - 06/10/14 08:05 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: mrsilv04]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
When I take any vehicle in to have tires mounted, I make sure that the wheels are clean, shiny and spotless.

That way, any sort of damage will be obvious to anyone involved.

That is just 500 miles worth of brake dust up around the lug nuts?


How clean or not the lug nut holes are is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, the wheels were spotless when I took the car in the first time for this reason.

And if its a matter of cleaning wheels or playing with or reading bedtime stories to my 19 month old - the baby wins every time, regardless of how much I like a cleaned up car exterior.

So actually the dirt on the wheels was less than 500 miles, probably no more than 250. Yes, these are wide open wheels with big rotors and pads that make a lot of dust.

Which again is irrelevant. I saw the damage clear enough, regardless of the level of dirt on the wheels. It was obvious to me, to the guy who did the job and to the service manager. the other damage was also visible enough to be quite obvious.

The company and insurance will bleed enough in terms of man hours working with this to make it their while to spend the money and give me the new wheel. I can be sure of that. So far they have not given me any issue about the new wheel other than the first tech who was trained to say that it was good enough. Even my phone calls with corporate.


OK... then how about spending less time obsessing about the scratched wheel, or spending less time on this website... and spending more time with your 19 month old instead?

It's all about the priorities, right? Isn't that the point that you were trying to make to me?


Point I'm making is that it's none of your business whether there is dust around the lugnuts or what I do at lunchtime or after bedtime or whenever else. You're not an auditor of my life and taking the discussion to an irrelevant point is trolling or worse.

A warranty replacement by a shop that claims to have rft capability for low profile tires and high performance tire experts means that one has some level of trust in their capability, notionally (especially after watching them like a hawk the first time). Obviously they went right ahead with the wheel replacement from the dealer and the new jack point because they knew they were wrong. What I do with my possessions that I own, and how someone else who is being hired to handle them treats them are two distinct things.

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#3393853 - 06/10/14 10:36 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
LT4 Vette Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12508
Loc: USA
I remember when your BMW was scratched at the airport by the painters.

Like I said, people don't care if they damage another person's property.

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#3393857 - 06/10/14 10:43 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3598
Loc: OH
This is why I like steel wheels...even the most uncaring, or unskilled dolt can't mess them up...


Edited by grampi (06/10/14 10:46 AM)

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#3393936 - 06/10/14 12:04 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Ndx Offline


Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 1685
Loc: IL
Those plastic lift points are weak .. especially when adapter is not used!
Stock round pads can destroy them even when you are careful ( I broke some on my E90 lifting car ... )

Good news is that they are cheap and can be easily replaced.

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#3393947 - 06/10/14 12:16 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: Ndx]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25916
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Ndx
Good news is that they are cheap and can be easily replaced.

Plus, proper adapter plates don't cost a fortune either.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3394039 - 06/10/14 02:06 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
PandaBear Offline


Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 12471
Loc: Silicon Valley
IMO Goodyear is the worst tire franchise out there among all, worse than Walmart, Firestone, Big O, Discount, Wheelworks.

One time I went there for alignment they said I need a camber kit, ok, I tell them to install a camber kit and 4 hours later at 5pm they said they had a mislabeled box kit themselves and tell me to come back the next Monday. I already paid for the alignment at the time.

They gave the car back to me with alignment bolt turning to the wrong place, and my car drives weird the whole weekend, AFTER I PAID FOR THE ALIGNMENT and they ran out of camber kit.

Then I complain to the HQ and the HQ phone person said the franchise owner is responsible for all that, and they can't do anything to enforce service quality.

My other friend told me they ask for $120 to read a CEL code out of a car, just reading, not diagnose or fixing anything, and that's non refundable and on top of any additional repair and diagnostic afterward.
_________________________
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#3394203 - 06/10/14 06:22 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: fdcg27]
hattaresguy Offline


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 5133
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Is that a PLASTIC jacking point on this fine German machine?


German cars have been using rubber/plastic jack pads since the 70's if not before can't remember. Prevents you from having to mess with wood.


Edited by hattaresguy (06/10/14 06:23 PM)

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#3394209 - 06/10/14 06:33 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Exactly. But I like the ones that are more solid and have a pad, versus these hollow types that need some interface (square peg).

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#3395668 - 06/12/14 01:03 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
AboutTires Offline


Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 73
Loc: Mass, USA
Ah, some mounter head drag and what looks like a bar snap. It's a constant problem especially for inexperienced techs, but even the best will have a bad day sometimes.

Low profile tires makes it worse. Low profile runflats makes it infinitely worse. The stiff sidewalls tend to pull the mounter head down until it makes contact with the wheel.

Quote:
I don't know what I'm talking about, but I suspect that on wheels without an outer rim lip, that tires should be mounted from the backside.


Not with those wheels. Usually it's only wheels with a very deep dish that will be reverse-mount. Reverse-mounting can be even more dangerous sometimes, as it can be incredibly tough to get the clamps onto the face without f-ing the finish.

I've written about some ways that customers can avoid the issue or deal with it when it occurs:

http://tires.about.com/od/wheel_safety_m...Your-Wheels.htm

I've also written about how to train tire techs to not damage wheels:

http://www.tirereview.com/reduce-risk-mounting-tires/

Finally, here's some info about reconditioning and refinished wheels:

http://tires.about.com/od/wheel_safety_maintenance/fl/Reconditioned-Wheels.htm

Hope it helps.

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#3396110 - 06/12/14 10:27 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Thanks - Ill review. Got the call from Goodyear manager to go ahead with the repairs.

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#3397903 - 06/15/14 04:46 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: pottymouth]
Pops1050 Offline


Registered: 12/03/12
Posts: 59
Loc: LA ( lower Alabama )
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: shDK
i really don,t get why some people here, apparently think. That choosing a tyre chain store was the costumers own fault. if a workshop accepts the work the costumer asks for. then the shop must do it, and the result should be spotless. if the shop make a damage by accident. they they will repair it or pay for it if they don,t have the skills them selves.

here we don,t have special wheel shops for big or high performance wheels. mostly wheelshops here do anything from sportscars to farming equipment and semi-trucks.


It's not his fault, but it is reality. A chef wouldn't go to Olive Garden for a top-notch meal, a supermodel doesn't go to Supercuts and I'll bet that Wayne Carini doesn't drop a Duesenberg off at Maaco for a paint job. those establishments all have their place, but you would have to be crazy to think that they will be able to satisfy a discriminating customer. The OP is clearly fastidious about his car. Most people are not. He is not likely to be satisfied with the overall experience that a chain can provide. He might get lucky sometimes, but the fact is that the chains are all about volume. Also, their employees generally have little incentive to give a [censored] whereas your local independent stakes his living on his reputation.

I understand this was a warranty issue. It's a tough decision. You can get the warranty replacement you are entitled to knowing there is a better than average change your car will be mistreated. On the other hand, you can choose to pay for the tire yourself and have it mounted somewhere that you trust. I doubt the tire manufacturer would just hand someone the tire and let them go somewhere else, but stranger things have happened.

My wife is entitled to free car washes at the VW dealer anytime it is in for service. I know what kind of a wash that will be and the swirls and other paint marks it will leave. I have her refuse it every time. Sometimes that which is free isn't really free at all.

OP: I hope you get your new wheel.


Pottymouth, you are right about real world service, but the guy from Denmark is right also. "If the shop accepts the job" they should DO IT RIGHT. We don't receive excellence because we accept something less. I get what you're saying but while I a scuff or scratch on my wheels may not get my attention OP is right to expect his car returned in the same condition he left it in.
Poster, don't weaken... make em make it right !
_________________________
"A man who wants to do something will find a way . A man who doesn't will find an excuse . " Anonymous

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#3398041 - 06/15/14 09:31 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Thanks. They are. I'll take it to my guy probably Thursday to replace the wheel and lifting block with new ones from the dealer.

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#3398287 - 06/15/14 04:42 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Pops1050 Offline


Registered: 12/03/12
Posts: 59
Loc: LA ( lower Alabama )
Good to hear. Good for you .
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#3398777 - 06/16/14 09:46 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: Quattro Pete]
zzyzzx Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1702
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
If you had normal sizes rims and tires instead of low profile, I bet this would not happen.

Define "normal size rims and tires." Over the years, there has been a push by all manufacturers toward lower profile tires. Something that you would consider low profile 10-20 years ago is fairly typical/normal today.

With the market changing, tire shops need to keep up and learn how to deal with these without butchering your rims.



I am adding this picture to my long list of reasons to avoid low profile tires:

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#3399297 - 06/16/14 08:57 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
hattaresguy Offline


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 5133
Loc: CT
That's a bad tire or wheel.

I'm guessing a Pepboys special.


Edited by hattaresguy (06/16/14 08:58 PM)

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#3399402 - 06/16/14 11:10 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Holy wheelweights Batman!

Actually when I was at my BMW Indy, I showed him the damage and he looked at the weights they stuck on and couldn't believe it.

Aren't there marks (colored spots) on the tires to recommend what to align to the inflation nipple or some other point on the wheel? I'd imagine if that isn't followed, more weight is needed?

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#3399403 - 06/16/14 11:11 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: hattaresguy]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
That's a bad tire or wheel.

I'm guessing a Pepboys special.


305/35R24??!? I'd say so. For a hoopty for sure. Likely no name wheel and tire.

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#3399406 - 06/16/14 11:16 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
sxg6 Offline


Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 2213
Loc: CT
I've never heard of the company that makes that 24" tire, a company called "Dcenti". I agree with hattaresguy, bad wheel and/or tire.

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#3399549 - 06/17/14 07:22 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
CapriRacer Offline


Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 2541
Loc: Somewhere in the US
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Holy wheelweights Batman!........


Humor is always a good way to get an idea across.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
.......Aren't there marks (colored spots) on the tires to recommend what to align to the inflation nipple or some other point on the wheel? I'd imagine if that isn't followed, more weight is needed?


Nope. It isn't clear what you are trying to say, but:

a) The fact that someone is not following a non-existing standard, is not an indicator of quality.

b) Even if the tire has the dots, the dots aren't about weight. They are about "round" - and imbalance is completely separate from round.
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#3399557 - 06/17/14 07:27 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: zzyzzx]
CapriRacer Offline


Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 2541
Loc: Somewhere in the US
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx


I am adding this picture to my long list of reasons to avoid low profile tires:


That has nothing to do with low profile and everything to do with a poor operator. There is something wrong and the operator isn't paying attention. It might be the wheel; it might be the tire; it might be the balancer; or it just might be something else. But the operator should have stopped after the second weight.
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#3399568 - 06/17/14 07:47 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: zzyzzx]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25916
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I am adding this picture to my long list of reasons to avoid low profile tires:

Your photo is a great reason to avoid the tire shop that did this, but that's about it.
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#3399979 - 06/17/14 05:28 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: Quattro Pete]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 1739
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Your photo is a great reason to avoid the tire shop that did this, but that's about it.


Exactly. Morons at work...
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#3399985 - 06/17/14 05:32 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
Rand Online   content


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7761
Loc: Barberton,Ohio
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#3400422 - 06/18/14 09:08 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: JHZR2]
AboutTires Offline


Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 73
Loc: Mass, USA
Once again you folks have given me a great idea for an article. My Tire Review column is aimed at tire techs, and I have in mind an article on what to do when the balancer starts "chasing weights" like that.

Zzyzzx: Can I use your picture for the article? It's a perfect illustration of what not to do.

CapriRacer: I would say that there are four possible causes for this.

1. A serious imbalance, maybe fixable by match mounting with a road force balancer.

2. Tire and/or wheel out of round, sometimes also fixable by match mounting.

3. Bad centering, either because the cone is in wrong or the hub center is damaged. Maybe needs lug centering.

4. Bad balancer calibration.

Any other causes/remedies you can think of?

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#3400517 - 06/18/14 11:36 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: AboutTires]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 244
Loc: iowa
Originally Posted By: AboutTires
Once again you folks have given me a great idea for an article. My Tire Review column is aimed at tire techs, and I have in mind an article on what to do when the balancer starts "chasing weights" like that.

Zzyzzx: Can I use your picture for the article? It's a perfect illustration of what not to do.

CapriRacer: I would say that there are four possible causes for this.

1. A serious imbalance, maybe fixable by match mounting with a road force balancer.

2. Tire and/or wheel out of round, sometimes also fixable by match mounting.

3. Bad centering, either because the cone is in wrong or the hub center is damaged. Maybe needs lug centering.

4. Bad balancer calibration.

Any other causes/remedies you can think of?


Water or something in the tire. I hate to admit it, but a couple of years ago I had 1 tire out of 4 that I kept chasing weights around. Drove me crazy. Finally pulled the tire back off, and there was the packing slip that I'd forgot I stuck inside of the tire. Couldn't believe how much just a piece of paper screwed up the balancing.

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#3401250 - 06/19/14 07:40 AM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: Traction]
CapriRacer Offline


Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 2541
Loc: Somewhere in the US
Originally Posted By: Traction
Originally Posted By: AboutTires
Once again you folks have given me a great idea for an article. My Tire Review column is aimed at tire techs, and I have in mind an article on what to do when the balancer starts "chasing weights" like that.

Zzyzzx: Can I use your picture for the article? It's a perfect illustration of what not to do.

CapriRacer: I would say that there are four possible causes for this.

1. A serious imbalance, maybe fixable by match mounting with a road force balancer.

2. Tire and/or wheel out of round, sometimes also fixable by match mounting.

3. Bad centering, either because the cone is in wrong or the hub center is damaged. Maybe needs lug centering.

4. Bad balancer calibration.

Any other causes/remedies you can think of?


Water or something in the tire. I hate to admit it, but a couple of years ago I had 1 tire out of 4 that I kept chasing weights around. Drove me crazy. Finally pulled the tire back off, and there was the packing slip that I'd forgot I stuck inside of the tire. Couldn't believe how much just a piece of paper screwed up the balancing.


First, I think that if a balancer is functioning correctly, the original call for weights would be pretty close - that the check spin should only result in the smallest increment - 5 grams or 1/4 oz. That's round off error.

If the 2nd check spin doesn't zero out, then it's time to check things.

If the 1st check spin calls for more than 5 grams (1/4 oz), look for something loose or perhaps something inside the tire. The 1st check spin not only should be close, but the call for weights ought to be either AT the previous weight location or 180° opposite. In other words, it's round off error.

If 1st check spin calls for weights somewhere other at or 180°, then check the set up. (OK, be careful not to over think this. 150° is close enough to 180° for it not to be a difference.)

I suspect that photo is just somebody being cute.

And lastly, I think it is important that the difference between RoadForce Balancing and regular balancing be explained. It's bad enough that the average guy doesn't know the difference, but tire techs ought to learn and not confuse the 2.
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#3401573 - 06/19/14 02:45 PM Re: How can changing tires be so difficult?!? [Re: jeepman3071]
ARB1977 Offline


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 4498
Loc: North Texas
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
You are right demanding a new wheel. The problem is nobody has pride in their work anymore.

We went through the same thing with my mom's 2011 Fit. The car had under 10,000 miles at the time, and had a dash rattle. My mom brought it to the dealer to have them diagnose the noise. The next day the car was "ready". They never found the rattle, and she had one different looking tire and a gouged aluminum rim. The dealer first tried to blame it on us, but the truth later came out that they "drove where they maybe shouldn't have" meaning the car went off the road and they had a blow out. Needless to say many phone calls were made to managers and supervisors. The dealership first claimed they could "buff out" the gouge in the wheel. I told them I'd like to watch since I've never seen anyone buff out a scratch that deep. They later replaced the wheel and both front tires so they would wear evenly. We later had a friend's shop check the front end and underside for any damage due to the car being off road.

All of this could have been avoided if the techs were careful and took pride in their work.

Did you ever figure out that dash rattle...going off topic a little? On my Tacoma there's a TSB on the dash rattle although I never took it in, all I did was wedge black rubber hose between the dash and windshield. Pretty much solved my dash rattle.
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