Rinseless washes.

[qwertydude]

I know there's already a current post about ONR but I did want to share my experiences with rinseless washes. I just did a rinseless wash with my homemade stuff yesterday and decided my car still looks good enough to photograph to show the results.

Here's just some general photos and beauty shots. The rinseless wash I make myself leaves a pretty decent just waxed finish. Really deepens the blackness of the car which in real life is apparent.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not, and I don't really mean to keep a perfect car anyways. This is a daily driver kept outdoors and it gathers dust quite a bit and quickly at that. In fact I rinseless wash it usually once a week or twice depending on how dusty it gets, if the wind picks up a lot of dust can settle, and even though other cars look decent even with just a light coat of dust it is extremely obvious on a car like mine. And I do like my car to look good.

As you can see a direct sun shot reveals some light swirls. But really even when I first polished it when I got it three months ago I didn't polish it perfect, and that's on purpose. I'm trying to minimize the amount of polishing.

This is what it looked like 3 months ago after polishing. Still some swirling. So three months of nearly twice weekly rinseless washing, and monthly waxing alternating with Meguiars Liquid Ultimate Wax and Collinite 915, and with a rinseless wash I make myself didn't really inflict any more damage than a normal wash routine. And most of the swirling is reduced in appearance by the light polishing effect Ultimate Wax has.

I mean in real life the swirls are there and not really all that visible as the main shots show. Only in very specific angles and direct sun shots are they obvious but then again it was hard enough to highlight them just right to get them to photograph much at all.

Oh and the interior. Everyone gripes about Armor All but know how to use it. Get a wet microfiber cloth, wring it out, fold it and spray the face with Armor All. It doesn't take all that much and the water helps to clean and spread the Armor All evenly. As you can see it doesn't look like a greased up mess and I can tell you it doesn't feel like it either.

After the moisture dries simply buff off the plastic for a nicely darkened plastic with a matte shine. Doing so really extends the Armor All too so you don't use as much. And the new formula does apply a little easier than the old one since it's thicker. Or you could also water down the Armor All 5 to 1 and simply apply and buff for similar results. With as concentrated as Armor All is, a little really does go a long way. And no it won't ruin your plastics. Better to apply Armor All as protection than nothing at all, all the water based protectants are pretty much the same, Meguiars, Finish 2001, Armor All, and the much ballyhooed Aerospace 303. I've used Armor All for decades. Never a problem. People who wait til their plastics start to fade and then put Armor All and it cracks, immediately blame the Armor All, not the fact that they've neglected their plastics for years and water alone would have damaged it anyways.

Just don't Armor All your leather.

 

[97tbird]

Nice work!

Wonder if you've ever tried Einszett Cockpit Premium.
You might hate Armor All.

 

[qwertydude]

No. I've tried dozens and dozens of different protectants. To me if it can't objectively be proven to actually be better, why use it. Don't take it as being a "it was better in my day" curmudgeon. No absolutely not. I've wholeheartedly switched to from diminishing to SMAT polishes, from cotton to microfibers, from natural chamois to absorbers and microfibers, from regular car washes to rinseless (partly to conserve water too). But in each case I definitely was willing to consider alternatives and if they worked out better, I switched without hesitation and without longing for the good old days. But some things like Collinite waxes have been around since the 1920's for a reason. They work. And as much as Armor All is lambasted by hoighty toighty uber detailers, if you really understand just how simple everyone's protectant formula is, you'd switch back to it.

And I'm not talking price determining quality. I've tried expensive products and inepxensive products and have products in my detailing kit that are both very inexpensive to moderately expensive. Regardless of price I care about performance too. But if a less expensive product does do a good enough job, I'm not buying a more expensive one. I'm talking if the manufacturer of say plastic protectant can tell me exactly why it is better than every other silicone emulsion protectant out there, I'm disinclined to believe it really is better. Armor All is a basic PDMS silicone emulsion, completely water based now after the 2007 reformulation. Aerospace 303 is a basic water based silicone emulsion.

Now one thing I'll tell you, Aerospace 303 gets such rave reviews because people who are inclined to buy it, are more apt also to properly apply it on a regular basis to protect their plastics. So considering in none of my cars ever had fading plastics or ever had it cracked, and I've owned cars for upwards of 10 years at a time all kept outdoors in the hot California sun. I'd say Armor All has done its job AND saved me money from regular use, and I'm more apt to apply it regularly because it costs so little.

Also looking at Einszett Cockpit Premium in terms of product and MSDS it's not a protectant and will not provide any UV protection for your plastics. Consider it a cleaner only. So when you use it you're providing zero protection of your plastics. Might as well just clean your plastics with some ammonia free glass cleaner. It's essentially the same. Look up the MSDS. You could easily make the stuff with distilled water, denatured alcohol, and a few drops of dish soap. And it would certainly cost less and work just as good.

http://www.winzerusa.com/ecat/msds/891_3822_7.pdf

So to me Einszett Cockpit Premium is certainly no replacement for Armor All or any other protectant for that matter. If you want your plastics to last, I suggest you also switch to an actual protectant.

So after doing some chemical sleuthing, I just might hate Einszett Cockpit Premium. It's an overpriced multi-surface cleaner of which I'd rather make an equivalent myself.

And one thing that does worry me. Einszett Cockpit Premium has methyl ethyl ketone. That stuff is bad for plastics period. It may be less than 1% but the fact that it's listed already has me worried. MEK is a plastic solvent. It's used as a paint shop prep cleaner and also as a paint thinner for certain two part paints. The stuff is pretty harsh on plastics. Even in small amounts I'd personally avoid using it.

 

[SatinSilver]

Wow, looks very nice! Speaking of interiors, my last buy was some Interior Detailer by Blue Magic for $3.25. It cleans and protects. I like it except for the chemical smell. Surf City Dash Away is very good but a little pricy at $9 a bottle. Made in California plus but has a nice scent. The pics of your interior look nice so might be hard to make a change.

 

[97tbird]

Originally Posted By: qwertydude
No. I've tried dozens and dozens of different protectants. To me if it can't objectively be proven to actually be better, why use it. Don't take it as being a "it was better in my day" curmudgeon. No absolutely not. I've wholeheartedly switched to from diminishing to SMAT polishes, from cotton to microfibers, from natural chamois to absorbers and microfibers, from regular car washes to rinseless (partly to conserve water too). But in each case I definitely was willing to consider alternatives and if they worked out better, I switched without hesitation and without longing for the good old days. But some things like Collinite waxes have been around since the 1920's for a reason. They work. And as much as Armor All is lambasted by hoighty toighty uber detailers, if you really understand just how simple everyone's protectant formula is, you'd switch back to it.

And I'm not talking price determining quality. I've tried expensive products and inepxensive products and have products in my detailing kit that are both very inexpensive to moderately expensive. Regardless of price I care about performance too. But if a less expensive product does do a good enough job, I'm not buying a more expensive one. I'm talking if the manufacturer of say plastic protectant can tell me exactly why it is better than every other silicone emulsion protectant out there, I'm disinclined to believe it really is better. Armor All is a basic PDMS silicone emulsion, completely water based now after the 2007 reformulation. Aerospace 303 is a basic water based silicone emulsion.

Now one thing I'll tell you, Aerospace 303 gets such rave reviews because people who are inclined to buy it, are more apt also to properly apply it on a regular basis to protect their plastics. So considering in none of my cars ever had fading plastics or ever had it cracked, and I've owned cars for upwards of 10 years at a time all kept outdoors in the hot California sun. I'd say Armor All has done its job AND saved me money from regular use, and I'm more apt to apply it regularly because it costs so little.

Also looking at Einszett Cockpit Premium in terms of product and MSDS it's not a protectant and will not provide any UV protection for your plastics. Consider it a cleaner only. So when you use it you're providing zero protection of your plastics. Might as well just clean your plastics with some ammonia free glass cleaner. It's essentially the same. Look up the MSDS. You could easily make the stuff with distilled water, denatured alcohol, and a few drops of dish soap. And it would certainly cost less and work just as good.

http://www.winzerusa.com/ecat/msds/891_3822_7.pdf

So to me Einszett Cockpit Premium is certainly no replacement for Armor All or any other protectant for that matter. If you want your plastics to last, I suggest you also switch to an actual protectant.

So after doing some chemical sleuthing, I just might hate Einszett Cockpit Premium. It's an overpriced multi-surface cleaner of which I'd rather make an equivalent myself.

And one thing that does worry me. Einszett Cockpit Premium has methyl ethyl ketone. That stuff is bad for plastics period. It may be less than 1% but the fact that it's listed already has me worried. MEK is a plastic solvent. It's used as a paint shop prep cleaner and also as a paint thinner for certain two part paints. The stuff is pretty harsh on plastics. Even in small amounts I'd personally avoid using it.


I still hate how shiny Armor all looks (looked) on dash. Perhaps newer formulations are better. I must say you seem very convinced by AA, and that's not something common, but hey if it works, why not?

As for 1Z CP:
I have used 1Z CP for a pretty long time, and it never harmed any cars (at least 4) that it was used on (one of them I have used it at least 10 yrs, and its dash (my old 97Tbird) looked like it was brand new until I sold the car.

And it does leave a very nice satin finish that I like.

I guess we both like products we use and will keep using them

that's all that matters.

 

[jimbrewer]

A rinseless wash, I would know within five or six washes if it safely worked---and it does. Armor All? 303? Who knows? the plastics in a car are a lot more durable than they used to be. Unless its really destructive stuff, it would be years before you could even guess whether it's helpful or hurtful.

I notice the 303 seems to disappear into the surface and not leave the surface very shiny. Maybe that just means its water, for all I know. Ford says not to use any of this stuff. I gotta think they have Armor All in mind.

 

[qwertydude]

What I'd be concerned about is soft touch materials. In the 90's hard dashboard plastics were all the rage and for good reason, they were nearly indestructible. The 1970's and 1980's nicer cars came with soft touch materials and I remember riding in some cars with cracked soft touch dash's that were only 3-4 years old. That susceptibility to cracking gave manufacturers some doubt as to including soft touch in their cars. And the 90's hard dashboards became prevalent as manufacturers did not want a repeat of the soft touch disaster I've seen been witness to in the past.

That's how brutal the non-stop 365 day a year southern CA sun is, when there were years when you can count the number of rainy days you've experienced in the past year on one hand, you know plastics are being brutalized.

My Cadillac has soft touch everything and soft touch is more sensitive to UV radiation than normal plastics. The material science may have improved since the 90's but I do remember "the good old days" and since I plan to keep this car for a bit. I'd like a little more assurance from my protectant than reading the MSDS and seeing no real UV protectants in it and reading that it has plastic solvents in it. PDMS is a tried and true plastic protectant and will most definitely protect from UV damage.

I would be more than willing to run a real head to head test and document it on BITOG to show anyone. If anyone wants to send me some Einszett, I can show Aerospace 303 that I do have and Armor All alongside. I've done a similar test on some plastic before that I know to fade quickly in the sun. Aerospace 303 actually lasted shorter than Armor All in my test. And I'm almost certain Einszett will fare about as well as the control, which is just regular plastic cleaned with water on a regular basis. This is also why I'm not a firm believer in the "miracle" of Aerospace 303 when Armor All's higher PDMS concentration showed me it's protecting better. Sure it's shiny but it does protect. And when properly applied, even the old formulation didn't have to be shiny, most people just sprayed it on and left it as is. Plenty good for protection, but that's how people came to equate Armor All with sickening shine.

The outer layer of soft touch materials is very thin and is more susceptible to UV damage and cracking than whole solid plastic. I'm sure your T-Bird held up fine but I'm pretty sure it wasn't double stitched soft touch vinyl. The stitching is a stress point and the holes act as perforation. Put that in the sun for a while and you'll see the top layer of the soft touch vinyl rip off like a paper towel right at the stich points. So I've seen many soft touch dashes simply get murdered in the span of a few years in the California sun when nothing was applied.

This is also why I had all the windows except the windshield tinted with Winco tint, not only is it UV blocking but also heat rejecting, it lets less heat through than the darkest limo tint while still being nearly as clear as stock glass. For the windshield I got a custom cut sun shade that reflects light out like a mirror. When it's 100 degrees and blazing sun outside the interior of the car doesn't roast you and the all black interior won't grill you either.

When you live in the west coast or southwest you learn to be serious about protecting your car from the sun.

Not saying Einzett doesn't apply some sort of "protection" but really nothing about the way it looks or its formulation, a clear blue water based fluid, tells me it's leaving much of anything behind to protect the car.

 

[97tbird]

I will look into another product that's supposed to protect more then...Wonder how BMW's own stuff is. I think DuPont makes it.

Anyway, about tint:
My wife's 2014 Mazda6 got AIR-80 clear windshield tint. Really helps as it rejects about 80% (theoretically) heat coming in through the front, and no change in day or night visibility either.
Rest of the windows got regular dark tint.

I wish I had gotten AIR-80 when I got my BMWs windows tinted. I might still do it.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
I will look into another product that's supposed to protect more then...Wonder how BMW's own stuff is. I think DuPont makes it.

Anyway, about tint:
My wife's 2014 Mazda6 got AIR-80 clear windshield tint. Really helps as it rejects about 80% (theoretically) heat coming in through the front, and no change in day or night visibility either.
Rest of the windows got regular dark tint.

I wish I had gotten AIR-80 when I got my BMWs windows tinted. I might still do it.


For some reason I thought BMW used Sonax.

I've had good results with Optimium leather/vinyl