E-core (so much for all the testing)

[lubeowner]

Well I now have enough information to officially say that the new Champion E-core design is less than spectacular when in real world conditions. I am seeing a high failure rate in the longer filters like the Ph400. The media pleats directly adjacent to where the media seam is are unevenly spaced and blowing in and tearing away from the resin endcaps. I have seen a few that the seam glue has failed and let the media split open. The shorter Toyota type filters have been showing the same problems but to a smaller scale. One of the guys caught one that had the combo valve off center and was pinched between the filter base and the center tube.

BTW, we cut open about 300 more of the older Champion filters and have found much of the same problems I posted previously. The media in many becomes very brittle and is caving in near the center tube. We have also been trying to cut open a lot of the filters from other lube shops too. This might be old info, but:

-Mileguard (Jiffy)- is always Fram
-Valvoline filters- Champion Labs
-Havoline- Purolator
-Mighty- Champion Labs
-Pennzoil- Fram
-Security- Fram
-Service Champ- Champion Labs
-Group7- Purolator
-Promotive- Purolator


I will try to post up some new pics soon.

I know everyones next question so I will answer. Friday will be our last day with Champion filters. We will now be sourcing Wix filters through our local NAPA in the pro-select line. After researching many options this was the most cost effective way of getting a quality filter from a well respected manufacturer. Don't get me wrong, I would love to put NAPA gold, Hastings, Pure-ones on every car but the majority of the motoring public doesn't care about their vehicles or is not willing to pay higher prices for premium products like the people on this board. This comes at a time when competition in this business is greater than at any other time and our competitiors are using junk filters they buy for $1.00. This filter switch is going to cut into my bottom line but I just can't knowingly put filters on that are failing at such a high rate.

 

[Steve S]

I have seem some filter displays with cut open Fram ,Wix and Hastings filters. Fram filters seem to work with 3,000 mile oil changes . With the display, give your customers the option to upgrade for the difference in price??

 

[jthorner]

quote:

---

This filter switch is going to cut into my bottom line but I just can't knowingly put filters on that are failing at such a high rate.

---

I very much admire that you are putting your money where your mouth is.

John

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve S:
With the display, give your customers the option to upgrade for the difference in price??

---

Sounds like a great idea. Is it practical lubeowner? I too admire your ethics.

 

[drive it forever]

Pennzoil should be ashamed of themselves putting their name on a fram oil filter.

 

[Ugly3]

lubeowner - This filter switch is going to cut into my bottom line but I just can't knowingly put filters on that are failing at such a high rate.

And the sad part is that your typical customer will not know the difference. Now the question is how do you capitalize on your decision.

How about a display with the competition filter and your filter (cut open) and the features of your filter promoted? Maybe some cut open really ugly used filters (under a glass case) showing what happens to a second rate filter in their cars? Can you capitalize on the NAPA well extablished for quality name (ie: we exclusivly use NAPA filters built by Wix Co. to ensure your engines cleanleness)? Maybe go the other way and say you refuse to use Fram, Champion, whatever because their quality does not meet your standards (gives you the opportunity to discuss failuer rate)? Bet they don't hear that at the Iffy Lube down the street.

 

[edwardh1]

The retail cost to me of wix is almost double regular not pure one Purolater (wix is good but probably not twice as good)

. Do you get a wix wholesale price closer to the purolater price?)

 

[novadude]

quote:

---

This filter switch is going to cut into my bottom line but I just can't knowingly put filters on that are failing at such a high rate.

---

I wish there were more shops like yours!

 

[Filter guy]

Lubeowner..

I'm curious.

You claimed in an earlier thread you sent in 10 pounds worth of filters to Champion Labs. Did you get an answer yet from them?

I also posted in the "Potential Fram X2 Extended Guard Problem" thread that I am coming to Oregon in September and would like to see for myself what happens when you cut filters open. I haven't had a responce yet. I will be available the week of September 26th.

 

[Mud]

I echo the sentiments here - I change our own oil, but would certainly give you that business instead (we have 8 vehicles

).

I wish you much success.

 

[labman]

I am one of many here that used one brand or another of the Champions and never saw any problems with their older designs. It does sound like the clicker valves and E-cores are a bad idea. For now, I will continue with the ST 3950's for my truck as long as Wally's stocks the old design. Until I find out otherwise, I will keep shopping on price for the cartridges my Ecotec takes, currently Purolators.

Still wish you and filter guy would get together and settle this.

 

[Gary Allan]

Good move, lubeowner. Your wallet may be a little thinner, and your customers will probably never realize the sacrifice you made for their benefit, but a clear conscience has some worth all by itself.

Bravo!

It will be interesting to see how the Wix fair in the same capacity. I imagine that it will be about 6 months before they start "coming back" in any real numbers.

 

[Filter guy]

Lube owner..didn't you send the filters direct to Champ?

I thought you bought direct from Champ..

btw..what was in the box?
Just Warner filters or a mixture of brands?

Were the filters cut open?
Or were they used and intact?

Did you provide Champ with any information on each filter you sent back?
Or did you just bundle up a bunch and let them sort it out?

[ April 21, 2005, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Filter guy ]

 

[lubeowner]

Our supplier sent a call tag to ship them to them. They wanted to take a look first and then send them to champ. The filters were cut open, all parts of the each filter were in each filter can. I sent in different lines they sell. Most were Warner (our filter), but we also sent in mighty, Valvoline, and a few others.

 

[doitmyself]

Lubeowner,

I believe it was me, your's truly, that suggested several weeks ago to check the NAPA system for WIX filters because NAPA has good incentives for high volume customers. Do I get a finder's fee, kick back, royalties? How about a free oil change by you.

Or, probably you just figured it out on your own. Anyway, like others above, you deserve credit for trying to provide a service "a cut above the rest". Hats off to you. And, I believe that marketing your better service will end up with more repeat customers and more business by word of mouth.

People like to think they are getting something better.

 

[Filter guy]

lubeowner..

You might want to ask for tracking information from your "supplier" to Champ.

I don't think they've made it to Champ yet..

 

[lubeowner]

Thank you all for the kind words, it sure does make me feel better about this switch. The ideas posted are great and I am going to try and get some sort of display built and have NAPA pitch some money my way to make sure it happens. It will have some cut open filters from competitiors and I want to get the Wix display also that has some new filter cutaways. Granted, we aren't using the Gold filters but from my research the Pro-select line is a good solid filter for the installer market, and much better than our competitors use.

Filter guy,

Actually we sent 30lbs. of damaged filtes in, havent heard a word from our supplier or Champion yet but I will keep you guys posted. I may be out of town in September but if I am here I can show you some of these filters.

 

[Hootbro]

Probably gonna get flamed for this but I have followed Lubeowners threads and find them to have my B.S.meter pegged. I will not deny that Champ has a bad filter from time to time but this "high rate" lubeowner has makes me wonder. He always seems elusive or double speak when Filter guy asks pointed questions or is conviently out of town in September. I would bet if filter guy flew in tomorrow to lubeowners shop, he would be elusive then. My money is that lube owner is dicking up the filters during disassembly. Then again, I maybe wrong.

 

[jbas]

quote:

---

Probably gonna get flamed for this but I have followed Lubeowners threads and find them to have my B.S.meter pegged. I will not deny that Champ has a bad filter from time to time but this "high rate" lubeowner has makes me wonder. He always seems elusive or double speak when Filter guy asks pointed questions or is conviently out of town in September. I would bet if filter guy flew in tomorrow to lubeowners shop, he would be elusive then. My money is that lube owner is dicking up the filters during disassembly. Then again, I maybe wrong.

---

Uh, it's Filter Guy that has not always believed many of lubeowner's posts. Some personal history with the filter manufacturers in that, but that is good give and take info, if done respectfully. Sadly, it hasn't always been mutually respectful in some of the posts.

But...lubeowner has sent pictures! If this is a hoax, it has got to be the most time-consuming, for-no-reward hoax made on BITOG. I believe him, and trully appreciate all the time he has taken to provide the info and pictures. It has affected my buying routine. If it proves not true, my (very small) loss.

 

[Filter guy]

jbas..huh?

I've believed what i've seen.

However, there are extenuating circumstances that create the problems lubeowner finds when he cuts filters open.

There are many people who have cut open their Champ made filters and posted those pics in here. Clicker valve and E-core style. They have not had the problem lubeowner has encountered. So they look at their filter, look at what lubeowner posts and wonder how can the filters be so different.

What would be nice to know is the specifics of the data of mileage on the vehicle and mileage between oil changes. These are basic information that would be helpful when looking at the pics.

So far lubeowner has posted 1 pic of a mismanufactured filter.


Lubeowner: Have you followed up to find out if your box of filters arrived at Champ?