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#3259735 - 01/25/14 02:58 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26157
Loc: Ontario, Canada
You want the data port isolated BY ITSELF, with no other loads on the line. The lesser the load, the better the signal. That's what the DSL splitter does, it isolates the DSL line from the loads inside the house (every foot of cable counts as a load) and you are supposed to put the modem as close to that isolated connection as possible. Mine is about 2ft away over CAT 6+. The ONLY thing that is supposed to connect to that port is a DSL modem (or modems if you are using link aggregation and multiple pairs but I'm assuming you aren't, LOL!)

Essentially, you want your DSL modem at the splitter, which you want close to or inside the NID. The whole idea is to reduce loop length and loads to get the best signal and thus the best negotiated link rate without drops. The clearer the line the higher you can push the sync rate RCO before drops happen. I'm at 99% RCO (24/4Mbit) but I never have any drops, ever, because of how clean the line is and how I have it setup.

From that point you can distribute using Ethernet. If you want to light up internal jacks for data use, assuming you have a router, you'd have it at your distribution point and plumb runs to the jacks you want live. My distribution point is my office desk, which then has the CAT 6+ plumbed back from my switch to the various distribution points in the house.

I can put it in a VISIO diagram if that helps you at all?
_________________________
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#3259741 - 01/25/14 03:02 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26157
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Also, on a 4-pair cable, only two pairs are used for data with 10/100, to use all 4 pairs requires Gig-E.

What this translates into is that if you wanted to run data from a switch or modem with an integrated switch over the same CAT5/5e/6/6+ cable as the POTS service you could.
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#3259783 - 01/25/14 03:56 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: OVERKILL]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
OK...got that. I'll have the splitter in the NIC. The DATA pair will go to the 66B about 20' away where it'll go into the modem. From there it'll be ethernet CAT5 to jacks around the house.

To be sure I'm clear re: your second post....ethernet is only 2 pairs. So I could run a pair for VOICE over the same cable? Really? Didn't think that would fly. It might be more work though trying to integrate it into one cable, than pulling two.

Else I'd have to take a cable, put an RJ45 on it to fit the jack on the modem, split out the two pairs on the 66B, run a pair over for VOICE then take that out on a new single cable. Punching isn't THAT much fun....still I'll think about it though it might be best to keep the two systems separate and run one color CAT5 for VOICE and another color for 10/100 ethernet.

Any on-line guides wiring guides you could recommend? Thanks for your time assisting me with this!
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3259795 - 01/25/14 04:04 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26157
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Here's one that shows the cable sets:

http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html

I always use 568B just because it was the one I memorized many many moons ago.

I like to separate my services, so while I wouldn't run ethernet/POTS over the same cable unless I had to (and I have had to) I just wanted you to know that it was in fact possible smile

Personally I'd pick up a cheap patch panel from Craigslist or something and use that for your Ethernet distribution. I have a pile of them in my basement from wiring jobs, they come in handy periodically.

I like your idea with using the different colours. That's what we usually do. And then do different colours of Ethernet for different VLAN's, subnets or patches depending on the network.

I like using white for voice and then blue as the base colour for Ethernet. Mixing it up with red, yellow, green, baby blue, black.....etc as needed.
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#3259815 - 01/25/14 04:39 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: OVERKILL]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
I use 565B as well. I just finished punching blu/org/grn/brn pair jumpers down the right side of the block to distribute VOICE. I only have one phone line, but wanted to punch all pairs to avoid complications later.

I'll be looking for a cheap patch panel. I'll post a note in my ham club.

I wonder what the speed degradation would be, or if it would even work, if I punched ethernet on a 66B? Never been there before. Just POTS. I'll have to 'break-out' two pair and try it on a block, check speeds then compare to an uninterrupted cable.

BTW, both ADSL splitters fit in my NID, so no worries there though I would have been surprised if they didn't. Not sure what the inside of one of the U-verse boxes looks like. Maybe the same.
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3266218 - 01/31/14 07:13 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
Update IV:
Here's my 50-pair 66B so far:

The CAT5 blue cable on the left represents the four incoming pairs from the demarc box. Though all won't be used, I punched them down anyway for backup and to allow for future expansion.

The right side is looped down to distribute VOICE to five outlets. This is plenty for my small one-story house. I ran another CAT5 cable to the demarc box for the DATA line. I'll terminate the end and plug it straight into the Westell 7550 modem/4-port router ATT supplied. Then I'll terminate CAT5 cables with RJ-45's and run these with the VOICE cable to each outlet.

I also have a Netgear N150 Wireless Router I'd used in conjuction with an old Motorola ADSL modem..which expired after overheating itself too many times. Would have made a nice coffee warmer...in Alaska.

I can conenct the Netgear with the Westell and have four more LAN ports if need be, either at the hub or on one of the distribution points. Haven't decided yet.

I also discovered an unused 4-outlet RatShack 110 power strip in the junk box I'll use to distribute power at the hub. I've already found a piece of ply to attach to the studs in the HVAC closet. I also have some 2" pvc conduit I can use to bring the two cables into the closet. I've decided to extend the conduit high enough in the attic as I intend to run the cables up near the roof to avoid them being stepped on down near the insulation. I have some galvanized wire hangers left over from an old job I'll use to hang the cables.

I also discovered some RG-6QS cable guides that should work well in routing the CAT5 cables without constricting them. My roof is trussed, so I'll have to run the cable down the trusses and secure it in place. No doubt it would be far easier to just lay it down on top of the insulation, but it wouldn't be protected and sooner or later it would be in the way...just like the big 12ga Romex the electrician laid this way! What a PITA that is at times.

My secret tool for snaking a pull rope is ball chain. Very inexpensive and very...slinky...plus it's magnetic. I have a wand with a magnet on the end and you can hit any part of the ball chain and it'll follow the wand. No more trying to snag some wire you can't see inside a wall with a hook bent the wrong direction!

I'll post more photos as I progress.
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3272019 - 02/05/14 11:41 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
Update V:
Spent several hours on this project this evening. It's a pleasant 35F in the attic, which is quite comfortable when wearing a bunny suit, headsock and a dust mask while moving from truss to truss.

I used a piece of 2" pvc conduit I found in my scrap bin that was just the perfect length to make a wire chase from the HVAC closet up through the attic floor. I carefully chose where to drill out the ceiling sheetrock as I didn't want to trip over any wires and I didn't want the conduit coming through the ceiling straight into an AC/heat duct.

I found a suitable location, bored the hole with a 2" hole-saw bit and slid the conduit into the closet from above. I added a piece of 5/8" wood behind it on the closet wall, secured it to the studs, then secured the conduit to the wood using two half-rings. This provides surprisingly firm support from below as I would have to add several inches of blocking above between it and truss support.



I started with a common, interior wall between a bedroom and office to pull the first cables. I used a metal hacksaw blade in a very handy frame made by Lennox to cut through the nails attaching the electrical box to the stud. I needed access to the wall cavity and you don't need a box with a back for low-voltage.

I thought I might get lucky using the old POTS wire as a pull cable but no joy as it was nailed in place. I bored a new 5/8" hole in the (double) top plate while in the attic, dropped the ball-chain in, then made another trip down the ladder.

I tied a 10' piece of pull cord onto the ball chain, then tied the pull cord onto two CAT5 cables. Ball-chain really isn't strong enough to pull cable with. Attaching the cord between the two saves me a ladder round trip as I can pull up the ball-chain, grab the pull cord, then pull up the cable.

I ran a cable pair to the nearest truss chord, crossed some power cables at 90 and attached it to the chord with nylon zip ties and some RG-6QS guides designed not to pinch. Up at the top near the roof peak, I nailed in some galvanized wire rings to support the cable and keep it out of the way. Though this method takes longer, it's worth it to protect the cable, get it off the attic floor where it can interfere with adding insulation, can be stepped on, easily snagged, etc.

Once I had enough slack, I threaded it through, around and down the 2" conduit into the HVAC closet.

I'd mounted a piece of 3/4" plywood I had on hand to the wall, screwing it to the wall studs. Then I mounted the 66B, and an old Rat Shack 4-outlet power strip. Later I'll mount the Westell modem/router here.



Now that I have all the necessary tools staged, the other drops will go much faster. Stay tuned!
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3282933 - 02/15/14 11:36 AM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
Update VI:
The last few days have been rather warm...not to mention in the attic. Yesterday it hit 81F! I was sweating in the attic while drilling the top plate for the kitchen wire drop. Not used to that!

I had a heck of a time finding the right wall cavity and it finally occured to me to remove the fir-down (soffit) cover I installed a few years ago to block off cold/hot air from getting inside the open space.

Lo and behold, there was another "header" down below that my drill couldn't reach. I slid in a 6' glow-rod, and once downstairs found it in the opening. Success! I tied a pull cord to it then the PC to a pair of cables, climbed back in the attic, then pulled them through.

I added a few more wire rings where necessary to support the cables and extended it over to the wiring closet.


The top white jack is for Voice and the bottom red one for 100baseT LAN.

Today I plan on staying out of the attic (and heat), terminating cable inside. It'll be nice to have this all buttoned up.

BTW, any suggested tests to run (besides speed) to compare my temp wire to the new?

Thanks for reading....
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3283135 - 02/15/14 02:56 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26157
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Depending on the modem, you may be able to get some useful statistics from it like RCO, attenuation, SNR...etc.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
06 Charger R/T

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#3283227 - 02/15/14 04:18 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: OVERKILL]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Depending on the modem, you may be able to get some useful statistics from it like RCO, attenuation, SNR...etc.

From your other post, I thought you might be out shooting today! I enjoy shooting as well...since I was about 5. No longer have any ranch land in the family though and I miss it.

Back to the topic at hand....just finished terminating several cables and I'm now connected via my new wiring/filter/connections, etc! All is working well. Now just need to hook up the Voice line.
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3283386 - 02/15/14 06:18 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26157
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Depending on the modem, you may be able to get some useful statistics from it like RCO, attenuation, SNR...etc.

From your other post, I thought you might be out shooting today! I enjoy shooting as well...since I was about 5. No longer have any ranch land in the family though and I miss it.

Back to the topic at hand....just finished terminating several cables and I'm now connected via my new wiring/filter/connections, etc! All is working well. Now just need to hook up the Voice line.


Had two of the kids today (wife took the other to a party) and so we couldn't go out into the bush. Only ended up firing off the .22 frown

Wanted to take the .308 out today, so I was rather disappointed that I couldn't.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
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#3283450 - 02/15/14 07:24 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: OVERKILL]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Depending on the modem, you may be able to get some useful statistics from it like RCO, attenuation, SNR...etc.

From your other post, I thought you might be out shooting today! I enjoy shooting as well...since I was about 5. No longer have any ranch land in the family though and I miss it.

Back to the topic at hand....just finished terminating several cables and I'm now connected via my new wiring/filter/connections, etc! All is working well. Now just need to hook up the Voice line.


Had two of the kids today (wife took the other to a party) and so we couldn't go out into the bush. Only ended up firing off the .22 frown

Wanted to take the .308 out today, so I was rather disappointed that I couldn't.


The VOICE line is now hooked up and working! I'm currently paying for 6Mb/sec down, however a recent speedtest with new wiring indicates only 5.1Mb/sec. Would be nice to have it a bit faster...closer to 6.

I can quickly go back to the 'way it was' to do comparisons, which will be interesting. For now though it's great to be able to close the office window and remove the rotted foam and celebrate checking this task off of my 'get 'round to it' list.

Yee Haw!
Cheers & Beers!
Cheers1
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3283486 - 02/15/14 08:06 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: sleddriver]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26157
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Appropriate, as I just cracked a Holsten, LOL! cheers

Do you know if your modem can give you any of the information I mentioned earlier? I think I asked you about the make/model before but I'm too lazy to go back and look grin
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
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#3284343 - 02/16/14 04:56 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: OVERKILL]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
ATT issued me a Westell 7550 ADSL2+Router. Model # is B90-755025-15.

I did check the 'tech info' tab inside briefly. I'll check again when I have more time and let you know.

Thanks for the support!
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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#3286190 - 02/18/14 12:58 PM Re: PhoCo Box Clean-Up [Re: OVERKILL]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1737
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Do you know if your modem can give you any of the information I mentioned earlier?

Current ATTN DR (Rx/Tx) 7644/996
___"___SNRM _________24.2/14
___"___LATN____________20/16
___"___SATN__________20.6/16
___"___TP____________15.7/11.9

Unable to find "RCO". What is it?
_________________________
1998 Volvo V70 T5 200,771 mi. Original Owner.

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