Follow up: 2004 Ion 5-speed, Pennzoil Synchromesh

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MinamiKotaro

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In an earlier post, I asked for advice on using MTF in my Ion's tranny. I settled on using Pennzoil Synchromesh, as it's available pretty much everywhere for cheap and has great looking specs.

After draining the Dex/Merc and filling with the MTF, the improvement was instant - as in, I could tell it was better just moving the gear shift with the car not even running. A thorough test drive revealed no more notchy shifts or scary noises from the trans. In fact, the car was so quiet I came to realize that some noises I was afraid were coming from the engine (timing chain, so I thought) actually were coming from the trans.

The computer at AAP said to use Dex/Merc in this trans, and so did the Saturn forums I frequent. After unsatisfactory shifting for 20,000 miles with Dex/Merc, I called the service guy at my local Chevy dealer. He said Ions/Cobalts/G5s came from the factory filled with Dex-Synchromesh, not standard Dex ATF, and the synchromesh fluid is what anyone who came to the dealer for tranny service would get.

Given the instant and tremendous improvement I experienced, I believe him. If you have a manual tranny Ion/Cobalt/G5, use your favorite brand of synchromesh, not ATF!

Thanks to MolaKule for his posts on MTF vs. ATF in fwd trannies, plus the suggestion to go with the Pennzoil.
 
From what I remember it has an attractive price as well. Much cheaper than the AC Delco FM mtf I'm sure.
 
It quieted down the NV3550 in my jeep liberty.

That truck make a knocky growly noise from the trans after shutting off the engine. It was literally the last noise the vehicle made as its spinning parts slowed to a stop.

The PZ stuff is great stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: FFeng7
Does the Saturn use the same transmission as a Cobalt?


Yes. The Getrag F23 for 2.2/2.4 engines is the one to which I'm referring.

The Saab F35 for 2.0 forced induction engines is actually spec'd for 75w90, iirc.
 
I researched and ended up putting in Redline D4 for my Vue (same trans I believe). Didn't notice any difference in shifting from the fluid change, but feel that its a well-spec'd fluid and will protect it just fine. I think my over-research ended up choosing the D4 vs a synchromesh as it seemed to offer the protection of an MTF in an ATF weight.

To be fair, the cable linkage shifting in these feels like carp no matter what magic elixir might be in the gearbox.

Now my Civic, I ended up with Amsoil in it (slight improvement), but the biggest difference by far was replacing the shifter bushings - so much slop was removed and it engages much cleaner/easier now.
 
Quote:
I think my over-research ended up choosing the D4 vs a synchromesh as it seemed to offer the protection of an MTF in an ATF weight.


Just a suggestion, Try researching the White Papers BITOG thread on Manual Transmissons.

D4 does not offer the protection of a dedicated MTF. I think the info you received was incorrect.
 
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Mola, would the Redline D4 at least be an 'upgrade' vs Dex III as the OEM fluid? I believe I wanted to stay within ATF weight range, when I made the choice.

"The D4 ATF is designed with superior low-temperature properties compared to a Dexron® III fluid, and the improved shear-stability
requirements which is part of the new Mercon® V specifications. The D4 ATF also provides significantly improved gear protection and will provide a GL-4 level of gear
protection, making it a superior product for transmissions and transaxles."


^from RL. I always used GL-4 compatible MTF fluids in past FWD transaxles to ensure the whole yellow-metal safe issue. The Vue is my first MTX that spec'd ATF.
 
The issue with Red Line D4 is not the protection but the additives. It's very likely that you need the brass friction-modifiers (FMs) for your tranny which the D4/D6/Dex fluids do not use.

What you should look for is a 'brass-friendly' MTF like Red Line MTL, Amsoil MTF or GM/Pennzoil Synchromesh (among others).
 
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Quote:
Mola, would the Redline D4 at least be an 'upgrade' vs Dex III as the OEM fluid? I believe I wanted to stay within ATF weight range, when I made the choice.


Short answer, no.


Quote:
"The D4 ATF is designed with superior low-temperature properties compared to a Dexron® III fluid, and the improved shear-stability requirements which is part of the new Mercon® V specifications. The D4 ATF also provides significantly improved gear protection and will provide a GL-4 level of gear
protection, making it a superior product for transmissions and transaxles."


I know this statement is from Redline and I have disputed this claim at least a dozen times here on BITOG.

If I ever saw any proof this was true I would recommend D4 for Manual Transmissions.

I know what additives go into a Manual Transmission fluids and what additives go into an ATF, and an ATF is not a good fluid for Manual Transmissions.
 
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I have had a difficult time picking a fluid for my Cobalt. I have used Valvoline Maxlife ATF which despite what Valvoline said I think it might be too thin because of the Dex VI rating. GM does not recommend Dex VI in this transmission. For that reason I changed over to Castrol Dex III High Mileage fluid. I could not tell any difference in between those two fluids and the original fluid the car came with. I'm seriously thinking about using either Mobil 1 ATF or Pennz oil Synchromesh next. Thanks for the response about the transmission type too.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Valvoline MTF is comparable to Pennzoil Synchromesh if you can't find PZS.


I have NEVER seen this (the Ashland product) on a shelf, anywhere, EVER.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Valvoline MTF is comparable to Pennzoil Synchromesh if you can't find PZS.


I have NEVER seen this (the Ashland product) on a shelf, anywhere, EVER.
frown.gif



I just noticed its arrival a month ago, and due to it being a lower price (7.99 @ orileys compared to 9.xx for penz) i have blessed my F250s ZF5 speed and manual trans case with several quarts of the stuff. Both shift much much better than with atf, I'm a fan!
 
Just wanted to add onto this thread instead of making a new one again.

I'm running a 2002 Saturn Vue with the same F23 manual trans. I bought it as a project with a bad engine. 86k on vehicle. I put a different engine and a new clutch in it. Filled up the trans with Amsoil Dex3.

When its warm it shifts buttery smooth. When its very cold here, its notchy and nearly impossible to get into 1st gear. If I leave it in my 45* heated shed overnight it shifts like butter no matter how cold it is outside.

I would just "deal" with it because I think the Amsoil is good fluid, but it makes some slow driving situations weird (like pulling into a parking stall or up a steep driveway etc. And I don't wanna be forcing this low mileage trans into gear.

I'm by no means a fluid expert but it feels to me that any different flavor of ATF isn't going to be a significant improvement. Is the Pennzoil synchromesh the way to go? I have an Amsoil dealer local that I would like to use, but if something else is better I would certainly go that direction.

Much thanks for any thoughts!
 
If you want to stick with Amsoil, I believe they have an equivalent product.

Amsoil

It would be best to double check that it is an equivalent, just in case I was wrong.
 
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