Subaru H4 (ADBV) vs H6 (No ADBV)

[gathermewool]

After seeing how badly the OEM Subaru blue (Honeywell) filter held up during my last OCI (I've been using them for a while, and could have sworn they started off higher quality,) and based on recommendations, both online and a local Subaru dealer tech (who also owns an H4 turbo Subie,) I purchased an H6 filter for my next oil change.

The filter is larger.

I won't cut it open until after it has been used, so internal construction is unknown.

NO ADBV that I can see. I find this odd, and wonder what the difference between the H6 and every other H4 engine is that it would not require and ADBV.

I've read all of the ADBV posts here on BITOG, so please don't simply reply with, "if it's vertically mounted, no ADBV is required," which I don't believe is true in all cases.

Here are some pics, just in case I'm losing it, but the ADBV should be clearly visible from the inlet holes, right?

 

[bigjl]

Perhaps if the lack of a visible ADBV concerns you it might be an idea to try and get hold of some of the Japanese market filters such as those by Zero Sports or STi?

The STi one is pink!

And the Zero Sports one comes with a magnet!

I did a quick check on US eBay and they are $30 for two plus $12 postage, but I am sure you could find them cheaper.

But then again, what price piece of mind.

I would have no qualms spending that kind of money to get a top spec oil filter.

Better to do that and run to 10/12k than risk a filter for a different engine.

Size isn't everything, sometimes quality is important aswell.

 

[JTK]

How did the blue Honeywell hold up badly?

I know I've found them not to be the prettiest in regards to pleat evenness, but other than that, no issues. I've got a thread or two w/ pics on the used blues and a Napa Proselect.

Joel

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Perhaps if the lack of a visible ADBV concerns you it might be an idea to try and get hold of some of the Japanese market filters such as those by Zero Sports or STi?

The STi one is pink!

And the Zero Sports one comes with a magnet!

I did a quick check on US eBay and they are $30 for two plus $12 postage, but I am sure you could find them cheaper.

But then again, what price piece of mind.

I would have no qualms spending that kind of money to get a top spec oil filter.

Better to do that and run to 10/12k than risk a filter for a different engine.

Size isn't everything, sometimes quality is important aswell.


It's cherry blossom red!

My mind, sold in pieces, is quite expensive. Though those filters you list are much cheaper than that, my peace of mind can be achieved at a much lower rate.

Originally Posted By: JTK
How did the blue Honeywell hold up badly?

I know I've found them not to be the prettiest in regards to pleat evenness, but other than that, no issues. I've got a thread or two w/ pics on the used blues and a Napa Proselect.

Joel


Of course this is subjective, but wavy pleats and endcaps, while probably harmless, don't leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling.

The following is of the OEM Honewell, after my last OCI of 6821 miles:

 

[VicVinegar]

The H6 filter is black? I could have sworn one of the Subaru parts sites had blue ones pictured, although maybe they just had a stock pic. I'll have to look at mine and see what is on there.

 

[gathermewool]

It looks like the black, made-in-Japan, Tokyo Roki filter (AA031) the dealer sold me was superceded by the white, made-in-America filter (SOA5165109,) though information isn't very easy to find, so I'm not entirely sure...

I've been searching, but can't find any difference, nor any answer to why the H6 filter doesn't have an ADBV. I hope they'll let me return the filter, thought I'm not sure if the made-in-America filter will be as high of quality as the Tokyo Roki.

 

[sjstangman]

I have used the Black Tokyo Roki filters on my wife's 2011 Outback with an H6 without issue and it is mounted horizontally. I have also used a Pureone PL14460 which also lacks a ADBV over the recommended PL14459 due to the bypass PSI.

Also here are some pictures of a Tokyo Roki cut open:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1855069#Post1855069

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: sjstangman
I have used the Black Tokyo Roki filters on my wife's 2011 Outback with an H6 without issue and it is mounted horizontally. I have also used a Pureone PL14460 which also lacks a ADBV over the recommended PL14459 due to the bypass PSI.

Also here are some pictures of a Tokyo Roki cut open:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1855069#Post1855069


That's reassuring to hear. Very odd that the one filter that is mounted horizontally does NOT have an ADBV. Is it mounted extremely low or something?

That's a different Tokyo Roki, the one that preceded the Blue Honeywell filter now spec'd for my STI. That Tokyo Roki had an ADBV, as seen in the pics.

Just to confirm, you're talking about the Tokyo Roki without any ADBV, the one in my OP, right, not the one pictured in webfors' link?

 

[edhackett]

Take the H6 filter back and trade it for a 15208AA160 filter. That one has the proper diameter and ADBV for your '08 STI. It's just a bit longer than the blue filter. It's the same as the RX8 filter referenced in the link above. I'm running them on my '08 LGT.

Ed

 

[sjstangman]

Yep, I was talking about the AA031. When I do my oil change in April I will cut it open and post pics.

Also the filter does sit parallel to the oil pan so I'm sure that helps with drainage. I know that when I take the filter off a decent amount of oil comes out.

I referenced the other link because I would imagine that the internals of the filters are the same minus the ADBV shown in the pictures. Based on what I saw in those pictures I was very impressed with the construction of the filter and have no problem running it for 7 months or 7500 miles (still under warranty).

 

[gathermewool]

I'm not sure what I was thinking. I was under the car yesterday to C/O the tranny fluid and there's not much room between the header piping and the filter. I wonder if the STI having an oil cooler would negate the effects of the filter possibly being too close to the header.

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Take the H6 filter back and trade it for a 15208AA160 filter. That one has the proper diameter and ADBV for your '08 STI. It's just a bit longer than the blue filter. It's the same as the RX8 filter referenced in the link above. I'm running them on my '08 LGT.

Ed


Any idea why the new AA160 specifically states "NON-turbo"? I can't imagine the length alone being a concern.

Originally Posted By: sjstangman
Yep, I was talking about the AA031. When I do my oil change in April I will cut it open and post pics.

Also the filter does sit parallel to the oil pan so I'm sure that helps with drainage. I know that when I take the filter off a decent amount of oil comes out.

I referenced the other link because I would imagine that the internals of the filters are the same minus the ADBV shown in the pictures. Based on what I saw in those pictures I was very impressed with the construction of the filter and have no problem running it for 7 months or 7500 miles (still under warranty).


I opened the filter box, so if my parts guy doesn't accept the return I'll just cut it open.

 

[edhackett]

No idea why. This is what comes on the new FB engine. There is also a blue Honeywell equivalent(015A) out there. The 160 meets the bypass and diameter requirements to be used on any H4 of any year.

The extra length certainly isn't an issue on my LGT. The diameter is what matters on the turbo cars.

Ed

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
No idea why. This is what comes on the new FB engine. There is also a blue Honeywell equivalent(015A) out there. The 160 meets the bypass and diameter requirements to be used on any H4 of any year.

The extra length certainly isn't an issue on my LGT. The diameter is what matters on the turbo cars.

Ed


That's what I figured. I'll pick up the AA160 for my next oil change and see how it looks after the next interval, in 4-6 months.

Thanks for the help, btw.

 

[gathermewool]

I really wanted to put to rest whether the H6 filter, which many have said works very well in non-H6 applications, will cause any issues. I purchased my usual Subie Blue as a backup, just in case, and installed the H6 filter yesterday during an oil change.

After three startups (shop, store, and after sitting all shift while I worked last night,) all I can say is that there has been no discernible difference between the H6 filter and the usually Subie Blue that I run. The low-oil-pressure dummy light deenergizes as soon as the car begins to crank over while starting, just as before, and there have been no unusual noises thus far.

Unfortunately, the gallon jug of Mag1 I used arrived with a small hole and some of the oil missing (not much, but some.) I also mixed the Mag1 ~50:50 with some leftover Rotella T6, so I wasn't able to figure out how much extra oil the H6 filter held, though by eyeball, I'd say it has to hold 2-3X the amount of the blue filter.

I'll keep the blue filter in my car, in case something does ago awry. Jacking up the car and swapping out the filter would be a major pain in the butt, but definitely doable if anything unusual suddenly popped up.

 

[gathermewool]

As an update, I've got nearly 1,000 miles on the H6 filter with out any ADBV and no issues thus far WRT startup noise or anything else.

 

[Izb]

Is any reason of ADBV on SUBARU FB engine (were filter is located on the top of engine vertically)?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Base up or down? If base down, then you want an ADBV. IMO, having an ADBV in any orientation isn't going to hurt anything, because the ADBV does not effect flow rate or pressure across the filter to any noticeable degree.

 

[Izb]

Base (thread) down, dome - top.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Like I said ... having an ADBV in any orientation isn't going to hurt anything. Wouldn't worry about it at all.

 

[Izb]

There is only 1 Pure one filter for Subaru with PSID=23 : PL14460, but there is no ADBV...
Purolator recommends PL14460 only for EJ engines (with bottom oil filter), not for FB (with top oil filter), why?