My 2012 RAM Hemi gets the best mileage on Shell 87 octane, winter or summer.
E0 vs Premium E10, same price, choice?
- Thread starter Johnny248
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JHZR2
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Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Defne how the truck "needs" 89. Mandated by OM? Non-requisite spark advance? Will the truck knock with 87?
My saab for example will run perfect on 87, but can advance timing up to 90 octane. If thats the same situation for you, you really need to run the experiment to see if the energy difference vs the timing difference has the greater effect.
Your best bet may be to make E5 that is 89-ish octane and has more energy!!
Yes. It calls for 89. It's '11 Hemi Ram. It will show ST and LT Knock with 87 and pull timing.
I see different ST & LT knock even with different brands of fuel.
Ok so it will knock and pull timing. Not necessarily a bad thing. Question is if thermodynamic efficiency due to timing has more or less of a toll than the energy content in the fuel.
Again I think making you own 90 octane blend is a great idea.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Defne how the truck "needs" 89. Mandated by OM? Non-requisite spark advance? Will the truck knock with 87?
My saab for example will run perfect on 87, but can advance timing up to 90 octane. If thats the same situation for you, you really need to run the experiment to see if the energy difference vs the timing difference has the greater effect.
Your best bet may be to make E5 that is 89-ish octane and has more energy!!
Yes. It calls for 89. It's '11 Hemi Ram. It will show ST and LT Knock with 87 and pull timing.
I see different ST & LT knock even with different brands of fuel.
Ok so it will knock and pull timing. Not necessarily a bad thing. Question is if thermodynamic efficiency due to timing has more or less of a toll than the energy content in the fuel.
Again I think making you own 90 octane blend is a great idea.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
Ethanol is hygroscopic, it "attracts" moisture. You don't want that. Ethanol is JUNK.
What you want is either methanol or isopropanol, it mixes with and breaks down the big bubbles of moisture and lets it go thur fuel system alittle at a time.
Look up HEET and what is in it and how it works you'll see the difference.
ZERO ethanol for me anytime I can buy it.
Ethanol does attract moisture, but only the moisture that is in the tank. It isn't like the stuff has a neon sign outside the vehicle calling out to moisture in the air to come join the party.. And even though it does attract moisture in the tank, it bonds and so the moisture does not freeze and just passes on thru. And it has been rightly stated, methanol has a corrosive effect.
I have used ethanol blends from E10 thru E85 since the late 70's here in the upper Midwest where the atmosphere holds a fair amount of moisture and it gets into serious sub zero territory during the winter. No one I know in my area, nor myself, has had an issue related to ethanol use.
Oldhp, I would think, living in the area you do, you would have a similar experience and not fall for the anti ethanol hype.
Ethanol is hygroscopic, it "attracts" moisture. You don't want that. Ethanol is JUNK.
What you want is either methanol or isopropanol, it mixes with and breaks down the big bubbles of moisture and lets it go thur fuel system alittle at a time.
Look up HEET and what is in it and how it works you'll see the difference.
ZERO ethanol for me anytime I can buy it.
Ethanol does attract moisture, but only the moisture that is in the tank. It isn't like the stuff has a neon sign outside the vehicle calling out to moisture in the air to come join the party.. And even though it does attract moisture in the tank, it bonds and so the moisture does not freeze and just passes on thru. And it has been rightly stated, methanol has a corrosive effect.
I have used ethanol blends from E10 thru E85 since the late 70's here in the upper Midwest where the atmosphere holds a fair amount of moisture and it gets into serious sub zero territory during the winter. No one I know in my area, nor myself, has had an issue related to ethanol use.
Oldhp, I would think, living in the area you do, you would have a similar experience and not fall for the anti ethanol hype.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
My 2012 RAM Hemi gets the best mileage on Shell 87 octane, winter or summer.
Have you tried running Shell 89? I've always had good results with the Shell branded fuel also. My car gets the best results with it. I don't use it to much anymore in my truck however simply because the Shell station near my house is very expensive compared to the competition.
My 2012 RAM Hemi gets the best mileage on Shell 87 octane, winter or summer.
Have you tried running Shell 89? I've always had good results with the Shell branded fuel also. My car gets the best results with it. I don't use it to much anymore in my truck however simply because the Shell station near my house is very expensive compared to the competition.
Ethanol is hygroscopic, it "attracts" moisture. Physical fact, you can't change it. You don't want that. Ethanol is JUNK. It is what it is. Read how HEET is different and how it works. Ethanol HYPE??? Its JUNK. LESS MPG and the federal government subsidizes it. MY TAX DOLLARS. If it was so good, why can't it stand on it's own as a business??? Because it's JUNK.
I do 1000 mile gas mileage runs, more accurate. Shell 87 and Phillips66 87 octane get the best MPG in my truck the way I drive it. RAM would not say 87 octane is acceptable if it was going to mess up a 100K warranty engine the way the great American people drive it.
I do 1000 mile gas mileage runs, more accurate. Shell 87 and Phillips66 87 octane get the best MPG in my truck the way I drive it. RAM would not say 87 octane is acceptable if it was going to mess up a 100K warranty engine the way the great American people drive it.
We don't all have the same needs. Our vehicles don't either.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
Ethanol is hygroscopic, it "attracts" moisture. Physical fact, you can't change it.
Yup. Water in what little air is present in the tank goes into solution in the gasoline. I don't consider this a problem because I have one of those newfangled "gas cap" devices. Ever since I got one of those the gas tank has been a lot less drafty.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
You don't want that.
Normally I don't really care one way or the other. That one time I ended up with a bunch of seawater sitting in the bottom of my car's gas tank and no good way to move the car out of the muck you can bet I wanted that. 5 gallons of E85 got her to start and run.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
Ethanol is hygroscopic, it "attracts" moisture. Physical fact, you can't change it.
Yup. Water in what little air is present in the tank goes into solution in the gasoline. I don't consider this a problem because I have one of those newfangled "gas cap" devices. Ever since I got one of those the gas tank has been a lot less drafty.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
You don't want that.
Normally I don't really care one way or the other. That one time I ended up with a bunch of seawater sitting in the bottom of my car's gas tank and no good way to move the car out of the muck you can bet I wanted that. 5 gallons of E85 got her to start and run.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
If it was so good, why can't it stand on it's own as a business??? Because it's JUNK.
It actually did stand on its own up here for a lot of years, long before either of our environmental regimes took up the battle.
By the way, isopropanol and methanol are hygroscopic, too.
If it was so good, why can't it stand on it's own as a business??? Because it's JUNK.
It actually did stand on its own up here for a lot of years, long before either of our environmental regimes took up the battle.
By the way, isopropanol and methanol are hygroscopic, too.
Garak, Yes they are too. I hate ethanol because the government still subsidizes it, and gets less MPG using it. The EPA this year finally said ethanol isn't doing what it was supposed to do and recommended "less" of it to be used.
No more fuel talk from me...
No more fuel talk from me...
Originally Posted By: oldhp
Garak, Yes they are too. I hate ethanol because the government still subsidizes it, and gets less MPG using it.
You do make a valid point, whether or not you want to further discuss it.
Before the rules were changed up here (to be similar to a lot of U.S. regulations), E10 was available without being forced, and you could get E10 in mid-grade at the same price as pure 87. The stations in question were smart enough to at least appear to be giving you some incentive to buy the stuff.
Garak, Yes they are too. I hate ethanol because the government still subsidizes it, and gets less MPG using it.
You do make a valid point, whether or not you want to further discuss it.
Well, if ethanol goes out there and attracts moisture that isn't in the tank already, then I must be running on an almost 50/50 mix of ethanol and water, since I use E85 frequently! Man, these old wives tales about how bad ethanol is just won't die. Too many folks have a dangerously enlarged paranoia gland.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, if ethanol goes out there and attracts moisture that isn't in the tank already, then I must be running on an almost 50/50 mix of ethanol and water, since I use E85 frequently! Man, these old wives tales about how bad ethanol is just won't die. Too many folks have a dangerously enlarged paranoia gland.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
I think there are a lot of variables. However, passenger vehicles are typically driven often and have fairly well designed systems that keep out enough water.
Now I do remember helping my dad out with his lawnmower that he hadn't used in over a year. It wouldn't start. It was probably a bad idea to store it without some sort of fuel stabilizer and water cosolvent. When I looked in the tank I could see clear signs of phase separation. Now I suppose the issue is that lawnmower gas caps aren't the best at sealing away the outside world.
Well, if ethanol goes out there and attracts moisture that isn't in the tank already, then I must be running on an almost 50/50 mix of ethanol and water, since I use E85 frequently! Man, these old wives tales about how bad ethanol is just won't die. Too many folks have a dangerously enlarged paranoia gland.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
I think there are a lot of variables. However, passenger vehicles are typically driven often and have fairly well designed systems that keep out enough water.
Now I do remember helping my dad out with his lawnmower that he hadn't used in over a year. It wouldn't start. It was probably a bad idea to store it without some sort of fuel stabilizer and water cosolvent. When I looked in the tank I could see clear signs of phase separation. Now I suppose the issue is that lawnmower gas caps aren't the best at sealing away the outside world.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, if ethanol goes out there and attracts moisture that isn't in the tank already, then I must be running on an almost 50/50 mix of ethanol and water, since I use E85 frequently! Man, these old wives tales about how bad ethanol is just won't die. Too many folks have a dangerously enlarged paranoia gland.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
The corn is heavily subsidized by the tax payers. Same thing.
Well, if ethanol goes out there and attracts moisture that isn't in the tank already, then I must be running on an almost 50/50 mix of ethanol and water, since I use E85 frequently! Man, these old wives tales about how bad ethanol is just won't die. Too many folks have a dangerously enlarged paranoia gland.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
The corn is heavily subsidized by the tax payers. Same thing.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, if ethanol goes out there and attracts moisture that isn't in the tank already, then I must be running on an almost 50/50 mix of ethanol and water, since I use E85 frequently! Man, these old wives tales about how bad ethanol is just won't die. Too many folks have a dangerously enlarged paranoia gland.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
The corn is heavily subsidized by the tax payers. Same thing.
SSSssshhh, don't go messin' with the corn liquor. Why, it's the best thing since sliced bread!
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, if ethanol goes out there and attracts moisture that isn't in the tank already, then I must be running on an almost 50/50 mix of ethanol and water, since I use E85 frequently! Man, these old wives tales about how bad ethanol is just won't die. Too many folks have a dangerously enlarged paranoia gland.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
The corn is heavily subsidized by the tax payers. Same thing.
SSSssshhh, don't go messin' with the corn liquor. Why, it's the best thing since sliced bread!
I was at a large local car wash/gas station in my area the other day and noticed that they now have Ethanol Free Fuel in 91 octane only @ $4/gal($3.99&9/10-gal). And there is a sign saying, that they will no longer carry 100 octane fuel.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Actually, though the budget reflects no more preference for ethanol, the truth is that it was no longer needed. The EPA put such an artificial demand on corn for future ethanol production that it forces the corn prices to stay up in the clouds, and thus is subsidised through EPA mandate.
Were the suckers paying for all the price hikes that result from this.
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Actually, though the budget reflects no more preference for ethanol, the truth is that it was no longer needed. The EPA put such an artificial demand on corn for future ethanol production that it forces the corn prices to stay up in the clouds, and thus is subsidised through EPA mandate.
Were the suckers paying for all the price hikes that result from this.
Y'all need to look beyond a subsidy. There certainly are mandates in place for its use, this is effectively the same thing since it creates an artificial demand and higher prices.
Besides, remind me again the benefit of ethanol in gasoline?
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Besides, remind me again the benefit of ethanol in gasoline?
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Y'all need to look beyond a subsidy. There certainly are mandates in place for its use, this is effectively the same thing since it creates an artificial demand and higher prices.
Besides, remind me again the benefit of ethanol in gasoline?
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Exactly, now we can only hope the mandate will be abandoned.
Y'all need to look beyond a subsidy. There certainly are mandates in place for its use, this is effectively the same thing since it creates an artificial demand and higher prices.
Besides, remind me again the benefit of ethanol in gasoline?
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Just like the government subsidy thing. Just won't die and is easy to validate that there has been NO subsidies for ethanol in the budget for over two years. Y'all really need to check out what the hired help in D.C. are passing.
Exactly, now we can only hope the mandate will be abandoned.
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