E0 vs Premium E10, same price, choice?

[Johnny248]

There is a station near that sells 90 Octane E0 ethanol free gasoline. Since there is such a large market of boats and powersports in my area, they market it as Recreational fuel.

Being a boat owner, I've read all the horror stories of ethanol blended fuels,although it seems that most vehicles run fine on it.

That being said, my truck requires 89 fuel, though I've found it does run better with 93 in it.

If this E0 90 octane fuel is the same price as their 93 E10, which would you chose to use? I've read that the E10 reduces the efficiency of gasoline but there may be very little to no noticeable improvement in your fuel economy using E0 over E10.

I was thinking about trying it for a fuel tank fulls to see if I notice any difference. The idea of ethanol free gasoline sounds better to me than the E blends, but is there any reason why I wouldn't want to use the "pure gas" in my truck assuming the cost is about the same as what I was using before?

 

[Rolla07]

Try it and tell us the difference in mileage.

 

[ARB1977]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
There is a station near that sells 90 Octane E0 ethanol free gasoline. Since there is such a large market of boats and powersports in my area, they market it as Recreational fuel.

Being a boat owner, I've read all the horror stories of ethanol blended fuels,although it seems that most vehicles run fine on it.

That being said, my truck requires 89 fuel, though I've found it does run better with 93 in it.

If this E0 90 octane fuel is the same price as their 93 E10, which would you chose to use? I've read that the E10 reduces the efficiency of gasoline but there may be very little to no noticeable improvement in your fuel economy using E0 over E10.

I was thinking about trying it for a fuel tank fulls to see if I notice any difference. The idea of ethanol free gasoline sounds better to me than the E blends, but is there any reason why I wouldn't want to use the "pure gas" in my truck assuming the cost is about the same as what I was using before?

I would love E0 even in higher octane. Though my vehicles require 87.

 

[javacontour]

In the winter, I would run the E10 where you live as it will act as dry gas, reducing the chance of any water in the fuel freezing.

Summer, I would run E0

 

[y_p_w]

Ethanol has several advantages to the seller. It's cheaper, although that's offset because it has about 2/3 the energy content of gasoline. However, the big advantage is that it's an octane rating booster. If I had my choice between 93 octane E10 and 90 octane ethanol-free fuel at the same price for a daily driver, it would be the 93 every time.

In California, there's a substantial demand for 91 octane premium, and without some sort of oxygenate that boosts octane rating, I don't know if we would have enough. Either that, or a lot of lower octane fuel that we can't get rid of. We also have special requirements that cost more to produce and where we can't bring in retail fuel from out of state unless it meets CA RFG3 standards (which isn't happening).

The thing that a lot of people don't quite get is that in a vehicle designed to take advantage of E85 (which may have less than 85% ethanol) that it's actually more efficient and can achieve higher mileage in relation to its energy content. It may also accelerate faster and achieve high power/torque.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
There is a station near that sells 90 Octane E0 ethanol free gasoline. Since there is such a large market of boats and powersports in my area, they market it as Recreational fuel.

Being a boat owner, I've read all the horror stories of ethanol blended fuels,although it seems that most vehicles run fine on it.

That being said, my truck requires 89 fuel, though I've found it does run better with 93 in it.

If this E0 90 octane fuel is the same price as their 93 E10, which would you chose to use? I've read that the E10 reduces the efficiency of gasoline but there may be very little to no noticeable improvement in your fuel economy using E0 over E10.

I was thinking about trying it for a fuel tank fulls to see if I notice any difference. The idea of ethanol free gasoline sounds better to me than the E blends, but is there any reason why I wouldn't want to use the "pure gas" in my truck assuming the cost is about the same as what I was using before?

I would love E0 even in higher octane. Though my vehicles require 87.


I'm going to try it and see what happens. There is another station that carries it also, but in 110 octane which I think is a bit overkill lol

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
In the winter, I would run the E10 where you live as it will act as dry gas, reducing the chance of any water in the fuel freezing.

Summer, I would run E0


I drive 65 round trip each day to work. Not including any other driving. I don't think my gas stays in my tank long enough to have any water freeze lol Gotta love V8 egnines..

Anyway, I just went and filled up. Reset my trip meter and avg eco, so I will post any findings I have.

BTW, in case anyone was wondering the gas was 3.89/gal which is a little bit higher than you can find premium for other places, but aprox 10-20 cent/gallon compared to area gas stations. That is 2.50-5.00 more for the tank full, which isn't going to kill, and is worth the cost to try out I guess.

I can hear it now from the extreme economizers on Bitog...all those $5 add up....lol

 

[sciphi]

I'd go with the 93 octane E10 if it's a high-performance or turbo engine. Higher octane = less predetonation, and ethanol itself is fairly high octane.

Some engines notice differences in E10 vs. E0. Our cars can't, but the turbo Cruze can easily tell the difference between 91 and 93 octane.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Ethanol has several advantages to the seller. It's cheaper, although that's offset because it has about 2/3 the energy content of gasoline. However, the big advantage is that it's an octane rating booster. If I had my choice between 93 octane E10 and 90 octane ethanol-free fuel at the same price for a daily driver, it would be the 93 every time.

In California, there's a substantial demand for 91 octane premium, and without some sort of oxygenate that boosts octane rating, I don't know if we would have enough. Either that, or a lot of lower octane fuel that we can't get rid of. We also have special requirements that cost more to produce and where we can't bring in retail fuel from out of state unless it meets CA RFG3 standards (which isn't happening).

The thing that a lot of people don't quite get is that in a vehicle designed to take advantage of E85 (which may have less than 85% ethanol) that it's actually more efficient and can achieve higher mileage in relation to its energy content. It may also accelerate faster and achieve high power/torque.


Thank god I don't live in California.

For a daily driver that requires 89 octane, some would argue that the 93 is not benefiting anything??


I know a guy who has a E85 tuned Typhoon that makes insane horse power.

My dad has a 4.7l Dakota that is a flex-fuel vehicle. He tells me that every time he has tried to run e85, he consistently gets worse fuel economy due to the stoichiometric differences.

On another note.... Doing some googling I found that this particular fuel actually tends to have a higher octane rating than 90? and that the 90 is the minimum it must meet.

Also, I wonder if this "recreational fuel" has different regulations as far as RVP? Is it possible that there is not a winter blend of this fuel since it is marketed as a recreational/marine fuel? Which could be a good thing since it would not be filled up with butane like the normal auto gasoline is. Just a guess. Don't know if that is true,but it would not surprise me that they only have one blend of this 90 E10 instead of blending a winter blend. I guess I could try calling the gas station and asking though I doubt the girl at the counter knows.

 

[javacontour]

In the winter, condensation is a concern. It's not the gas staying in your tank. It's what happens when the tank is less than full. Does condensation form and freeze?

Years ago, you would add gas-line antifreeze so any water than condensed in your tank wouldn't freeze. Those bottles were essentially alcohol, which would "shepherd" the water through the fuel system to be "burned" in the combustion process.

So it wouldn't hurt to periodically run a tank of E10 in the winter to help move along any water that forms in the tank.

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: javacontour
In the winter, I would run the E10 where you live as it will act as dry gas, reducing the chance of any water in the fuel freezing.

Summer, I would run E0


I drive 65 round trip each day to work. Not including any other driving. I don't think my gas stays in my tank long enough to have any water freeze lol Gotta love V8 egnines..

Anyway, I just went and filled up. Reset my trip meter and avg eco, so I will post any findings I have.

BTW, in case anyone was wondering the gas was 3.89/gal which is a little bit higher than you can find premium for other places, but aprox 10-20 cent/gallon compared to area gas stations. That is 2.50-5.00 more for the tank full, which isn't going to kill, and is worth the cost to try out I guess.

I can hear it now from the extreme economizers on Bitog...all those $5 add up....lol

 

[chubbs1]

If the cost is equal it is a good idea to use pure gasoline. I used pure for a couple of fillups and noticed no difference in mileage or performance.

 

[Johnny248]

In the winter, condensation is a concern. It's not the gas staying in your tank. It's what happens when the tank is less than full. Does condensation form and freeze?

Years ago, you would add gas-line antifreeze so any water than condensed in your tank wouldn't freeze. Those bottles were essentially alcohol, which would "shepherd" the water through the fuel system to be "burned" in the combustion process.

So it wouldn't hurt to periodically run a tank of E10 in the winter to help move along any water that forms in the tank.

I get what you are saying. I was just making a comment about how fast my truck burns through gas lol

From what I understand, the alcohol allows the water a fuel "mix" together instead of fuel sitting on top of the water.

I have never had fuel freeze in anything I've ever owned that has an engine. I see all of these people buying fuel line antifreeze every winter because that's what their dad used back in the day etc. Is this actually a problem anymore??

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I know a guy who has a E85 tuned Typhoon that makes insane horse power.

My dad has a 4.7l Dakota that is a flex-fuel vehicle. He tells me that every time he has tried to run e85, he consistently gets worse fuel economy due to the stoichiometric differences.

Of course there's worse mileage because it does have a lower energy content. However, it's actually capable of traveling more miles relative to that energy content. It's supposed to have about 27% less energy per unit volume than 87 octane unleaded, but tests show about 20-25% lower mileage.

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
I'd go with the 93 octane E10 if it's a high-performance or turbo engine. Higher octane = less predetonation, and ethanol itself is fairly high octane.

Some engines notice differences in E10 vs. E0. Our cars can't, but the turbo Cruze can easily tell the difference between 91 and 93 octane.


What is recommended on the cruze? I used to use 93 every now and than, but unless the MFR calls for it, it has not proven to be beneficial in regular road use.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Is this actually a problem anymore??


Not if you periodically use fuel with ethanol in it.

 

[JR]

R90 would be my only choise if it was the same price of premium E10.
It's the only fuel my metro gets if its a option. i usually will drive 10miles one way to get rec90 for the metro.

ken

 

[oldhp]

Ethanol is hygroscopic, it "attracts" moisture. You don't want that. Ethanol is JUNK.
What you want is either methanol or isopropanol, it mixes with and breaks down the big bubbles of moisture and lets it go thur fuel system alittle at a time.
Look up HEET and what is in it and how it works you'll see the difference.
ZERO ethanol for me anytime I can buy it.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
Ethanol is hygroscopic, it "attracts" moisture. You don't want that. Ethanol is JUNK.
What you want is either methanol or isopropanol, it mixes with and breaks down the big bubbles of moisture and lets it go thur fuel system alittle at a time.
Look up HEET and what is in it and how it works you'll see the difference.
ZERO ethanol for me anytime I can buy it.

Methanol is nasty. Back when one could occasionally find it blended in fuel, it was maxed at 5% and required a lot of corrosion inhibitors which didn't always work. I haven't seen it mentioned in any owner's manual since maybe the early 90s.

 

[JHZR2]

Defne how the truck "needs" 89. Mandated by OM? Non-requisite spark advance? Will the truck knock with 87?

My saab for example will run perfect on 87, but can advance timing up to 90 octane. If thats the same situation for you, you really need to run the experiment to see if the energy difference vs the timing difference has the greater effect.

Your best bet may be to make E5 that is 89-ish octane and has more energy!!

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Defne how the truck "needs" 89. Mandated by OM? Non-requisite spark advance? Will the truck knock with 87?

My saab for example will run perfect on 87, but can advance timing up to 90 octane. If thats the same situation for you, you really need to run the experiment to see if the energy difference vs the timing difference has the greater effect.

Your best bet may be to make E5 that is 89-ish octane and has more energy!!


Yes. It calls for 89. It's '11 Hemi Ram. It will show ST and LT Knock with 87 and pull timing.

I see different ST & LT knock even with different brands of fuel.