ATF flush procedure used by Honda dealers

[NormanBuntz]

Anyone have any experience with Honda dealers doing the so called ATF power flush? None of my local dealers will do a simple drain and refill. Yet I've read on Honda Forums that these flushes can shorten the life of an A/T and should NOT be used. The only ATF power flush I ever had was a BG procedure in an Acura Legend with 120K miles. What really gives?

 

[gregk24]

AFAIK the "flushes" the dealers use exchange all the fluid, but do not "power flush" them. My dealer offers both full exchange and drain and fill.

 

[Colt45ws]

^ Yeah. Basically what it does it hook into the cooler lines and they start the engine. The machine pumps back in the same amount the trans pumps out.

 

[The_Eric]

Scare tactics. My old boss played that card often and for all it was worth.

 

[user52165]

Honda dealers here do a drain and fill. That's 3 quarts for $89+.

The low information users are not told the details. Upon probing, they will inform what is done. No complete exchange is offered. They are not comfortable talking with with anyone who approaches the minimum requisite to be a BITOGer.

 

[dparm]

I would certainly find out if this is indeed a "flush" or just an "exchange", as others have mentioned.

It's also prudent to ask if this is an official Honda service, or an upsell that the dealer offers.

 

[Old Mustang Guy]

My Ford dealer uses a machine. I don't know if it is a flush or exchange but they call it a flush. My 01 Escape has 195k and has been serviced every 30k and still shifts like new. This trans has a reputation for being a little weak so I think this service is fine.

 

[RF Overlord]

I think what most people refer to as a "flush" is actually a fluid exchange.

I thought Honda had an official corporate ban on transmission "flushes" using a machine of any kind?

 

[KrisZ]

What irks me the most is dealers that will do a single drain and fill, but call it a "full flush" and charge the clueless customer usually over $100 for something that should be priced similar to an oil change.

 

[DBMaster]

I suppose my Honda transmission knowledge is outdated since mine was an 89 Accord, but all I ever did was D&F's. It was very easy since you just popped a drain plug, wiped off the magnet, and refilled with 3qt of fluid. KISS!

 

[Ken2]

The older Hondas I've worked on drained a relatively larger proportion of fluid than many transmissions. The drain and refill exchanged more fluid--did more good. I don't know about newer Honda transmissions.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:

I think what most people refer to as a "flush" is actually a fluid exchange.


I think flush originally really meant a complete fluid "replacement" where whereby all crud would be expelled via new fluid replacing old fluid.

In the BG machines, step 1 is where apparently a cleaner is added and the fluid is circulated in reverse, or "reverse-flushed." So the BG machines in this stage have to use an internal pump to the mcahine to force the fluid in the opposite circulation path.

After the cleansing cycle, Step 2 is where new fluid is added to completely replace the old fluid under the operation of the transmissions pump.

The mechanic I work with gives his customers a two-stage fluid system cleaning. He does a drain and fill without filter change and then has his customers come in at the next oil change for the complete ATF replacement.

He then uses a Wynns machine in his business to replace old ATF. He now replaces the filter and the machine simply "feeds" new fluid in to replace old fluid under the AT's own pump.

So when your mechanic or shop says "flush," ask him what he really means and have him explain it to you.

If there is a reverse flush involved, I would walk away or insist on what my mechanic does.

 

[user52165]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I suppose my Honda transmission knowledge is outdated since mine was an 89 Accord, but all I ever did was D&F's. It was very easy since you just popped a drain plug, wiped off the magnet, and refilled with 3qt of fluid. KISS!


I still have an 87 Accord LXi and I maintain my daughters 2007 Civic. Both are about 3 qts D&F. 190K on the 87 and never a trans problem. Regular maintenance is still the key.

BTW - 2007 Civic has an external filter - a bear to change (reach) on top of trans under cowl.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
Anyone have any experience with Honda dealers doing the so called ATF power flush? None of my local dealers will do a simple drain and refill. Yet I've read on Honda Forums that these flushes can shorten the life of an A/T and should NOT be used. The only ATF power flush I ever had was a BG procedure in an Acura Legend with 120K miles. What really gives?



You can take the hose going from the tranny to the radiator, * THE COOLER LINE * and remove it and place the hose in a bucket... This way you are using the Trannys own pump, then while you start the car you pour in new FLUID at the same time as fluid is going out.... then when you see the DIRTY OIL start to turn CLEAN you turn car OFF....

This is the best way to do it..

They show on YOU TUBE how to do it... You might need 2 people... but its the best IMO.

Also never have oil change place or JIFFY LUBE DO A TRANNY FLUSH on a HONDA. Honda even put out a notice that said NOT to do trans flushes.

They say to do drain and fills 3 times.

However I think the way I said above is the best....

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: user52165
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I suppose my Honda transmission knowledge is outdated since mine was an 89 Accord, but all I ever did was D&F's. It was very easy since you just popped a drain plug, wiped off the magnet, and refilled with 3qt of fluid. KISS!


I still have an 87 Accord LXi and I maintain my daughters 2007 Civic. Both are about 3 qts D&F. 190K on the 87 and never a trans problem. Regular maintenance is still the key.

BTW - 2007 Civic has an external filter - a bear to change (reach) on top of trans under cowl.


ATP makes one that just plugs into the radiator.. You just take the brass line that screws into your radiator from your tranny line and use the ATP one.
Inside it has a magnet and screen filter and even a bypass / pressure valve so you do not have to worry about it clogging and no cutting hose or nothing

I made a post on it.. check it out

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: user52165
I still have an 87 Accord LXi and I maintain my daughters 2007 Civic. Both are about 3 qts D&F. 190K on the 87 and never a trans problem. Regular maintenance is still the key.


190K is not that close to the 305K my original lasted prior to slipping badly enough to require the car's first tow in its twenty year life. It started slipping a bit during launches and did that for a year or two prior to total failure so you should have plenty of warning. I can't say for sure, but doubt I could have done any better with complete "flushes" other than flushing my wallet more thoroughly.

I haven't had much experience with dealers, other than warranty work. My own opinion, which is totally owned by me, is that ANY service they recommend that exceeds the OEM's recommendations is 100% motivated by profit. Unless Honda has completely forsaken its integrity, following the requirements in the owner's manual ought to be more than adequate.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I suppose my Honda transmission knowledge is outdated since mine was an 89 Accord, but all I ever did was D&F's. It was very easy since you just popped a drain plug, wiped off the magnet, and refilled with 3qt of fluid. KISS!


That's all it is today still. Honda corporate does not recommend any type of fluid exchange other than drain-and-fills. Even in the service manual, it outlines the procedure for a drain-and-fill. Any Honda dealer offering a mechanical fluid exchange is doing so outside of manufacturer-supplied guidelines and is likely motivated by having to pay off that machine they own.

I would certainly skip this service, and I'm sure I wouldn't trust them to not use the machine if I took it there specifically for a drain-and-fill.

Honestly, transmission fluid drains on a Honda are easier than an oil change; I highly recommend you do it yourself. This is but one reason I enjoy owning these cars; maintenance is stupid easy.

 

[brages]

From my 2005 Odyssey's owner's manual: (owner's manual, not service manual)

"To thoroughly flush the transmission, the technician should drain and refill it with Honda ATF-Z1, then drive the vehicle for a short distance. Do this three times. Then drain and refill the transmission a final time."

Honda has a bee in their bonnet about the 3X drain & fill. Why, I have no idea.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: brages
Honda has a bee in their bonnet about the 3X drain & fill. Why, I have no idea.


I think Honda is simply trading some old fluid for the reduced risk of keeping the transmission off a machine. They must feel that the risk of a flushing machine is greater than the reward of getting ALL of old the fluid out vs. simply MUCH of the old fluid out.

They end up using an entire case of fluid (12 quarts) with the draining and refilling (three quarts out and in, and then drained and filled a fourth time). The total capacity is about 11 quarts give or take, so the machine would have used about the same amount of fluid.

 

[USAFACE]

Not to try and jack the thread but I have a 2001 honda civic ex that I recently purchased to commute in. To my knowledge the transmission fluid has never been changed and it has right at 148k on it, I hear mixed opinions but should I change it or not? Thanks