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#2926347 - 03/03/13 09:11 AM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
P20565R16 Offline


Registered: 03/01/13
Posts: 54
Loc: Durham, NC
This topic interests me. I may come across older batteries on some cars I look at when that time comes. Can someone please share how to overcome a surface charge on a battery that may very well be a few years old and have been hooked up to nothing but the car's alternator its whole life?

Also I see a lot of batteries with fine white powder-like substance on their tops, and it only increasses after a good charging with a normal charge be it pulse smart or non, what does that mean?

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#2927071 - 03/03/13 06:44 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
Smokescreen Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 2263
Loc: Alberta, Canada
_________________________
09 Corolla 1.8L-212Kkms(133Kmi)-PP,Denso
05 LeSabre 3.8L-138Kkms(86Kmi)-F1,Baldwin
03 Sierra 2500 6.0L-186Kkms(116Kmi)-PYB,Baldwin

All with mpg > EPA

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#2930307 - 03/06/13 11:54 AM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: JHZR2]
ImpactBattery Offline


Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 9
Loc: KY
I wish I could agree, but I cannot do so. I know all the metrics and have questioned them myself since the advent of ultra-smart chargers. I read many articles saying 12.5-12.8 is fully charged. I have yet found an AGM battery arrive from the factory that low. In fact they get that low for at least a year sitting on a shelf.

Surface voltage will disappear in hours and the battery will settle to its true charged voltage. I have seen with my own eyes several brands of chargers that leave 12V batteries between 13-13.2V for weeks. Just like when they arrive direct from the factory (which is a six week journey from China). I cannot call that surface voltage, which should dissipate in hours or when loaded.

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#2930316 - 03/06/13 12:04 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1578
Loc: Illinois
AGM sealed batteries have a higher end point for the specific gravity of the electrolyte. The AGMs will be around 1.310 sg whereas a flooded wet cell would be around 1.285 sg. This is what gives them the higher OCV.

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#2930327 - 03/06/13 12:21 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: JHZR2]
ImpactBattery Offline


Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 9
Loc: KY
Quote:

I am interested in your comments of seeing 18-22V or 40V. I have not seen this, I have seen excursions in the 14-15V range, fluctuating, when under float, which is roughly 13.4V. Maybe the voltage spikes are higher and the sampling rate on my Fluke doesnt show it, but Ive not seen it.

Sulfate can be dissolved in the 2.5-2.66V per cell range. That is the 15-16V range. There is no basis I know of to justify 18, 22 or 40V. All it would do is instantly electrolyze some water if the current was high enough, or else bunch current and create a localized concentration overpotential someplace.

I agree if a charger is putting voltages like that out, there is a problem. Ive just not seen it...


The tech I spoke with at Battery Minder about a week and half ago indicated to me that their chargers rapidly spike to around 20V. This is happening in micro seconds and would be hard to measure without computerized equipment. I have read some product sites that their units have a max voltage of 40V. That scares me! One would have to think this would need to be regulated and is only capable of such voltage and does not actually put out voltage that high. I do not have firsthand experience on those types of units. Only Battery Minder, CTEK, Genius, MotoBatt, Schauer, Dual Pro...etc

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#2930334 - 03/06/13 12:36 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
wrcsixeight Offline


Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 1012
Loc: california
I've used a BatteryMinder 12248 on some heavily cycled deep cycle batteries on numerous occassions.

The charger works nicely to top charge and maintenance charge, but I noticed no improvements in battery performance after keeping it on the heavily cycled batteries for a week and more. Perhaps on a battery which was allowed to slowly sulfate though self discharge, a pulse type desulfator would be more effective.

The battery minder is my friend's. He bought it hoping to magically restore some batteries he killed by thinking batteries have unlimited shelf lives. He tried really hard to bring those batteries back to life, fruitlessly.

Some people apparently think a charger can magically restore the depleted plates within a battery. Better off just pouring some epsom salt in there and let the battery work good, for one more week only.

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#2930421 - 03/06/13 01:49 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
meep Offline


Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 2465
Loc: Southeast
battery desulfation using PWM spikes can hit 40V+. the spike is very shortlived and is [hopefully] absorbed in filter circuits in the car's components before they can do any harm.

It takes MONTHS on one of these devices to show any differences.

as I believe I posted earlier--- I have made these and measured their performance some years ago. They are not a panacea and don't work in all circumstances. And, one destroyed a battery charger, over time when used for several months. And in another instance, the jeep's computer got a little wonky after a weekend on the desulfator. mine spiked at *up to* 60V.

Batteryminder's 20V is enough for marketing to call it such, but won't really be effective unless it's truly on battery for months.
_________________________
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#2942623 - 03/18/13 11:48 AM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
97 GTP Offline


Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 844
Loc: LI, NY
I have one of those smart chargers that do desulfation. My lawn tractor came with a DieHard battery (not gold) that lasted 3 years. I replaced it with a DieHard Gold and desulfate it every fall prior to storage for 2 cycles (48 hrs). I also charge it every 1.5 to ensure it's fully charged. The battery is now going on year 7.

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#3106789 - 08/27/13 06:41 AM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
ImpactBattery Offline


Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 9
Loc: KY
Yes battery desulfators work! Those that tell you otherwise have either not tried one, tried one on a damaged battery, or are a battery salesman. We use these devices regularly and have revived many batteries we were told were no good. We even keep a blog journal of customers testimonials sharing there stories of success (and failure).

In regards to the BLS unit you speak of, from an insider that sells these, I would share that these units have our highest return rate for on-board desulfators. The PulseTech PowerPulse has a zero percent return rate and the VDC BatteryMinder a tiny handful come back. This may be due to the promotion Battery Life Saver had where you could return the unit after 3 months of use...we think people were fixing there battery issues and then returning for a full refund; essentially "renting" the product.

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#3106793 - 08/27/13 06:50 AM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: wrcsixeight]
ImpactBattery Offline


Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 9
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Better off just pouring some epsom salt in there and let the battery work good, for one more week only.

Yikes! Don't do that! This will change the chemical makeup of the battery and create issues further down the road. You would be better off flushing with distilled water to remove sediment. Better yet using a product like Battery Equalizer.

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#3314888 - 03/17/14 12:28 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 24903
Loc: Illinoistan
I realize this thread has ran its course, but I came across a link on the subject recently, so I thought I'd add it here:

Battery Desulfators - Fact or Fiction
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#3314905 - 03/17/14 12:49 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1578
Loc: Illinois
It seems that my Odyssey after spending the winter disconnected but charged is a bit down on the volts. Running with a normal nightime load the alternator can't get the voltage above 13.2. And cranking it falls below 11 volts.

So I will put it on supercharge and see what I can do.

When I connect my old 2/6A charger to it with it on 6A it will drive the voltage to 16V. I can rig up an on/off timer for it somehow.

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#3314985 - 03/17/14 01:54 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: SHOZ]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33306
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
It seems that my Odyssey after spending the winter disconnected but charged is a bit down on the volts. Running with a normal nightime load the alternator can't get the voltage above 13.2. And cranking it falls below 11 volts.

So I will put it on supercharge and see what I can do.

When I connect my old 2/6A charger to it with it on 6A it will drive the voltage to 16V. I can rig up an on/off timer for it somehow.


batteries self-discharge. Under that self discharge, the chemistry changes and sulfate crystals can form.

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#3315004 - 03/17/14 02:16 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: chad8]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1578
Loc: Illinois
I boosted it twice over the winter.

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#3315043 - 03/17/14 02:52 PM Re: Battery Desulfators- Do they work? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Touring5 Offline


Registered: 09/24/05
Posts: 368
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I realize this thread has ran its course, but I came across a link on the subject recently, so I thought I'd add it here:

Battery Desulfators - Fact or Fiction




Thanks for posting - it's good to see some independent testing of these units.

I bought a Battery Minder this winter to maintain my BMW that doesn't get a lot of use. Before putting it on the car, I used it on two lawnmower batteries. One of the batteries was charged with a standard Sears charger just a week before and only held about 7 volts. I let the Battery Minder do it's thing for about 12 days and now, almost a month later, it's holding charge at about 12.7 volts.
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