2011 Civic R18 6.5k/26k Idemitsu 0w20 SN

[gpshumway]

Surfing around here tonight I realized I forgot to post the latest UOA for my Civic from back in February. I've been chasing high Aluminum and Silicon readings in this car so I did an intermediate sample for this OCI at 2,700 miles. That UOA report is posted HERE.

I've switched from Blackstone to OAI due to the cheaper KV40 measurement, added oxidation and lower cost overall.

Oil was Idemitsu 0w20 purchased from my local Subaru dealer. Looking at Lukoil's VOA of the new Idemitsu formula ( LINK)and doing some math on Moly levels, I'm convinced this fill is three quarts API SN and one quart API SM. Curiosly, all of the bottles were labeled SM. Given that, I'm not sure the VI measurement in this UOA means much, though by pure weighted averaging it should be slightly higher than the calculated 174.

I think I may have finally resolved my air filtration problem, after the last UOA I changed the filter to a NAPA select (silver). Silicon accumulation was 6.3 ppm/1k mi prior to the filter change and 1.8 ppm/1k mi after the new filter was installed. I hope it gets even better as the filter loads up. Aluminum accumulation also dropped from 8.9 ppm/1k mi to 4.4 after the filter change.

TBN of this sample was 2.58 from OAI, which seems pretty weak for a full-synthetic oil at 6,500 miles.

Just like with the UOA on my WRX, I'm not looking for lots of comments on the ROI of my oil and OCI choices, I'm mostly posting to share the data with the community.

 

[k24a4]

Seems like a good report aside from the Aluminum. But if memory serves you've had high Al since new? Seems rare for a Honda I4. However, the pistons and block are Aluminum, so perhaps a bit of scuffing? I noticed you live in a colder climate, do you get clatter on cold start-ups? Quite a few owner's of the k24 report the cold weather clatter as piston slap, and perhaps this is where the Al is coming from in my reports. It has definitely trended upward on the Honda 0w-20; I'll be swapping out my current fill after a few thousand miles in favor of pu or pp 5w-20 to see how that does.

What is your mix of miles and style of driving? And how did you break the engine in?

Thanks for posting.

 

[gpshumway]

The engine is quiet and refined at all temperatures, no start-up clatter. It made a bit of noise when I had to start it outside at -15*F last year, but I wouldn't characterize it as valve clatter or piston slap. More like "groaning".

The driving is primarily "extra-urban" we live in a third tier suburb and my wife works in a first tier suburb. The car sees a fair amount of stop & go highway driving, but few truly short trips, most trips are 10mi+ with full temperature achieved. I've also got both a block and pan heater on the car, it's garaged and plugged in every night (in the winter).

The engine was broken in "scientifically hard" that is I did a series of full throttle pulls with cooling periods in-between, slowly working my way up the RPM range over the first 1,000 miles. The car had a few more test drive miles on it when I got it than I would have liked, though. It's possible the dealer had a knucklehead lot jockey. The car burns no oil though, so the basic indication is the ring seal is good.

I'm really hoping the Aluminum problem is solved with the new air filter. I've also switched to M1 AFE 0w20 as well, so that's two variables in the mix.

 

[k24a4]

I wonder if the elevated Al means anything, really, in terms of longevity or actual wear on the engine. In our cases we are deviating from the mean, but is it a statistically significant amount?

 

[gpshumway]

It's a good question. There's always the issue of particle size and the limitations of UOA.

I haven't searched a lot for K-series UOAs here, though I'm aware of a few Civic Si UOAs, but those for the R-series seem to show either high Aluminum or very low Aluminum, like
Who knows how much wear is really going on though, think about some GM and VW engines which consistently show >20ppm of Iron, they still last 200k+ mi.

One thing that gives me hope though is the cars with
I'll be interested to see if switching to PP or PU makes a difference for you.

 

[chubbs1]

This engine will kick out high Al. It is just a characteristic of this engine. I tried heavier wgt oils (5w30) and it never significantly changed. There was not a big difference from conventional to syn either in regards to Al readings so I would use PP/PU or M1 and run it 10k.

Good luck

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
This engine will kick out high Al. It is just a characteristic of this engine. I tried heavier wgt oils (5w30) and it never significantly changed. There was not a big difference from conventional to syn either in regards to Al readings so I would use PP/PU or M1 and run it 10k.

Good luck


The R-series doesn't universally show high Al. As I said before, some do, some don't.

SnPb's 2012 showed 14 PPM Al in his first UOA:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2818694

Artem's 2007 has never showed more than 6 PPM, and he runs 10k mi+ OCIs:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...738#Post2749738
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2489877

This 2006 showed only 7ppm of Al despite serious fuel dilution:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...nt=4&page=1

This 2006 shows 4ppm of Al after 5k mi:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2374277

This 2008 shows 18ppm at 14k miles (total) and 9ppm at 60k mi both ~8k mi OCIs:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2022663

This 2007 shows Al trending down from 12ppm to 6ppm from 24k to 36k miles:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1466125

This 2008 has 8ppm Al and slightly elevated Si with 19k mi on it total.:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1441188

The one trend I can discern is that lower mileage engines tend to show higher Al readings which then lessen with age, at least that's my hope.