i have been thinking of putting some MMO in the coolant to cut down on rust, 7-8 oz. what think?
Fill up coolant with tap water?
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gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: morris
i have been thinking of putting some MMO in the coolant to cut down on rust, 7-8 oz. what think?
Oh, shush, you!
i have been thinking of putting some MMO in the coolant to cut down on rust, 7-8 oz. what think?
Oh, shush, you!
Originally Posted By: exranger06
NO. Dasani is NOT distilled water. Neither is Poland Spring, Aquafina, etc etc. Those are all spring water or mineral water. They have minerals and other stuff in them, either naturally or purposely added to the water to make it taste better.
Distilled water on the other hand, is just plain water with nothing else in it. It is purified through distillation so any minerals and other stuff is removed. THAT is what you want for the radiator. Basically, you need to look for bottled water that specifically says "Distilled Water." Anything that says "Spring Water" or "Drinking Water" is NOT what you want.
FWIW there are three types of bottle water. The spring water which is very high in mineral contend +400 micro siemens. Most bottle water is first ran through a reverse osmosis system. This brings the mineral content down below 15 micro siemens, the mineral added for taste blends add a bit of sodium bicarbonate and sodium sulfate to bring the mineral content up to ~40 micro siemens..
NO. Dasani is NOT distilled water. Neither is Poland Spring, Aquafina, etc etc. Those are all spring water or mineral water. They have minerals and other stuff in them, either naturally or purposely added to the water to make it taste better.
Distilled water on the other hand, is just plain water with nothing else in it. It is purified through distillation so any minerals and other stuff is removed. THAT is what you want for the radiator. Basically, you need to look for bottled water that specifically says "Distilled Water." Anything that says "Spring Water" or "Drinking Water" is NOT what you want.
FWIW there are three types of bottle water. The spring water which is very high in mineral contend +400 micro siemens. Most bottle water is first ran through a reverse osmosis system. This brings the mineral content down below 15 micro siemens, the mineral added for taste blends add a bit of sodium bicarbonate and sodium sulfate to bring the mineral content up to ~40 micro siemens..
There's 40 micro semens in my water!? Coca-Cola what you doing to me! No wonder it still tastes bad! P-thuie!
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Hey guz - Anyone feeling especially lonely?
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
I've been using tap water on my vehicles for over 20 years with no ill effects. We don't have hard water though.
If you don't mind me asking, how long do you usually keep your vehicles, and how many times per vehicle do you usually refill the coolant system using tap water?
I've been using tap water on my vehicles for over 20 years with no ill effects. We don't have hard water though.
If you don't mind me asking, how long do you usually keep your vehicles, and how many times per vehicle do you usually refill the coolant system using tap water?
Kestas
Staff member
This is why you shouldn't use just water.
This is a water jacket of an aluminum head returned through warranty. The surface is at the suction side before the water pump. The low boiling point of water (compared with a proper 50/50 mix), coupled with the low pressure of the water pump inlet circuit, created nucleant boiling on the water jacket surfaces. The nucleant boiling, together with the lack of corrosion protection that you get with antifreeze, pounded away and corroded the aluminum at the water jacket surface until it finally broke through the wall thickness and leaked. The head was trashed.
Futher investigation showed the owner from Texas immediately changed the factory coolant fill with pure water after he bought his new truck, against directions in the owners manual.
This is a water jacket of an aluminum head returned through warranty. The surface is at the suction side before the water pump. The low boiling point of water (compared with a proper 50/50 mix), coupled with the low pressure of the water pump inlet circuit, created nucleant boiling on the water jacket surfaces. The nucleant boiling, together with the lack of corrosion protection that you get with antifreeze, pounded away and corroded the aluminum at the water jacket surface until it finally broke through the wall thickness and leaked. The head was trashed.
Futher investigation showed the owner from Texas immediately changed the factory coolant fill with pure water after he bought his new truck, against directions in the owners manual.
Kestas
Staff member
It likely was. I'm guessing they couldn't find any mistreatment on the owner's part at the dealer level, and satisfied the claim. Once the part was returned to the automaker, the engineers saw it as an unusual failure, then directed it to our lab for forensic evaluation. All warranty parts are returned to the automaker by the dealer network.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Futher investigation showed the owner from Texas immediately changed the factory coolant fill with pure water after he bought his new truck, against directions in the owners manual.
I love the idiots that think they know better than a century of data and testing through engineering at the car companies.
This customer did have to pay 100% for the repairs. Correct? I hope so.
Futher investigation showed the owner from Texas immediately changed the factory coolant fill with pure water after he bought his new truck, against directions in the owners manual.
I love the idiots that think they know better than a century of data and testing through engineering at the car companies.
This customer did have to pay 100% for the repairs. Correct? I hope so.
I've been using tap water for each and every one of my cooling system flushes and refills. 235K miles later and no ill effects for almost 15 years. Don't get me wrong, I think distilled water is a good idea. I've just been too lazy to ever think about getting some, and maybe a little cheap too.
Originally Posted By: DinoOil
I've been using tap water for each and every one of my cooling system flushes and refills.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. It might not be optimal, and given the choice, I'd prefer distilled or RO. If using tap water, I might be more tempted to do flush and fills more regularly and carefully, but that's about it.
I've been using tap water for each and every one of my cooling system flushes and refills.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. It might not be optimal, and given the choice, I'd prefer distilled or RO. If using tap water, I might be more tempted to do flush and fills more regularly and carefully, but that's about it.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
I've been using tap water on my vehicles for over 20 years with no ill effects. We don't have hard water though.
If you don't mind me asking, how long do you usually keep your vehicles, and how many times per vehicle do you usually refill the coolant system using tap water?
I don't mind. I've had my 97 since new, so that's 16 years. I generally change when there's some sort of other coolant related maintenance, such as hoses or water pump. Anywhere from 50-100k I'd guess. My last flush and fill was '09 I believe on my 97. On my '03 I just did a partial (huge system) maybe 6 months ago.
Just to be clear I use tap water and coolant mixed at approximately 60/40.
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
I've been using tap water on my vehicles for over 20 years with no ill effects. We don't have hard water though.
If you don't mind me asking, how long do you usually keep your vehicles, and how many times per vehicle do you usually refill the coolant system using tap water?
I don't mind. I've had my 97 since new, so that's 16 years. I generally change when there's some sort of other coolant related maintenance, such as hoses or water pump. Anywhere from 50-100k I'd guess. My last flush and fill was '09 I believe on my 97. On my '03 I just did a partial (huge system) maybe 6 months ago.
Just to be clear I use tap water and coolant mixed at approximately 60/40.
No, Dasani is drinking water, and as such, not suitable. Not for me anyway. Heres a quote about Dasani by Sam's Club
"Dasani is filtered through a state-of-the-art purification system and enhanced with minerals for a pure, clean taste that can't be beat" This sounds an awfull lot like Sparklet's selling points? Could be Sparklets in disguise, but I did not find any evidence, but didn't dwell on it to long either. Read below for an off brand I did find evidence for.
I used to sell Sparklets water (was the best you can buy, and probably still is for drinking, but not your auto) which is basically distilled with minerals added back to improve taste. Tap water has minerals, and rightly so as the body needs them, but your auto does not. Many companies have followed suit by adding minerals to their water as well. Some off brand water bought at Winco looked a tad to simular to Sparklets with the same nomenclature so I did some research; Low and behold the water comes from a plant owned and opperated by Sparklets or DS Waters of America of which the brand Sparklets is a subsidiary. If you desire a safe, known quantity water for drinking, Sparklets is your best bet due to the fact water is brought to the distillation point, and then minerals added. You can be as certain as one can be about the quality you are putting into your body by drinking water that is manufactured in this manner. I personally don't like the tatse, and do not drink it, but I do believe Sparklets to be the best drinking water available. Arrowhead, being well based water, at least one of their brands, holds a close second. These are based on lab reports received when selling Sparklets, and info currently available on the internet if you care to research. Most waters sold go through reverse osmosis, and is then tested so most waters are safer than what comes out of the tap in some parts of the country. If anal, like me, drink bottled water, and look for a reverse osmosis signature on the bottle, this is good enough for me.
Ok, a little water lesson which is subjective, but true in any case. Distilled water, again if anal like me, is the only water you want in your engine, and as others have said, it's inexpensive. A buck a gallon so $2 bucks tops along with your much more expensive coolent/antifreeze offers peace of mind yu know what is in your mixture!
Bottled waters are not all equal, and some waters would shock you with the lab report. Better to stay with the two I mentioned, or their subsidiaries. Do your own research, and be safe when puting liquid into your body; your auto however needs distilled if for no other reason than you know there are no minerals or contaminants in your cooling system for such an inexpensive outlay.
"Dasani is filtered through a state-of-the-art purification system and enhanced with minerals for a pure, clean taste that can't be beat" This sounds an awfull lot like Sparklet's selling points? Could be Sparklets in disguise, but I did not find any evidence, but didn't dwell on it to long either. Read below for an off brand I did find evidence for.
I used to sell Sparklets water (was the best you can buy, and probably still is for drinking, but not your auto) which is basically distilled with minerals added back to improve taste. Tap water has minerals, and rightly so as the body needs them, but your auto does not. Many companies have followed suit by adding minerals to their water as well. Some off brand water bought at Winco looked a tad to simular to Sparklets with the same nomenclature so I did some research; Low and behold the water comes from a plant owned and opperated by Sparklets or DS Waters of America of which the brand Sparklets is a subsidiary. If you desire a safe, known quantity water for drinking, Sparklets is your best bet due to the fact water is brought to the distillation point, and then minerals added. You can be as certain as one can be about the quality you are putting into your body by drinking water that is manufactured in this manner. I personally don't like the tatse, and do not drink it, but I do believe Sparklets to be the best drinking water available. Arrowhead, being well based water, at least one of their brands, holds a close second. These are based on lab reports received when selling Sparklets, and info currently available on the internet if you care to research. Most waters sold go through reverse osmosis, and is then tested so most waters are safer than what comes out of the tap in some parts of the country. If anal, like me, drink bottled water, and look for a reverse osmosis signature on the bottle, this is good enough for me.
Ok, a little water lesson which is subjective, but true in any case. Distilled water, again if anal like me, is the only water you want in your engine, and as others have said, it's inexpensive. A buck a gallon so $2 bucks tops along with your much more expensive coolent/antifreeze offers peace of mind yu know what is in your mixture!
Bottled waters are not all equal, and some waters would shock you with the lab report. Better to stay with the two I mentioned, or their subsidiaries. Do your own research, and be safe when puting liquid into your body; your auto however needs distilled if for no other reason than you know there are no minerals or contaminants in your cooling system for such an inexpensive outlay.
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Forgot to mention I live in the area Arrowhead gets their water from, and have seen them in the mountains collecting water. However, rumers have it they also get water from other muiciple sources as a few people mentioned to me they saw the trucks in Fontana, CA filling the tanks. My gues would be this water is for thier distilled line, and not the Mountain Spring water they sell. Why distill mountain water when any water will do for this purpose, well most any. I live in an area currently that is on well water, on the property, and it is not potable/drinkable, but good for washing clothes, watering plants etc. It has too much bacteria and other contaminants; it would cost $1000's to install a filtering system to remove these.
Most tap water in the US is safe to drink as is, and is probably your best bet for drinking water. Reverse osmosis is inexpensive to buy and install, and provides that second layer of peace of mind, but if the filters are not changed religiously, you will end up with water simular to my well water, full of bacteria and other contaminants. So, if you install an osmosis unit, only do so if you know in your heart you will change those filters, and will have the money available to do so when the time arises. Otherwise, your tap water is most likely fine, and some municipalities send out a lab report to citizens on a yearly basis stating the quality of your water. If concerned, water testing is inexpensive, look it up on the net if concerned, and have your tap water tested.
Most tap water in the US is safe to drink as is, and is probably your best bet for drinking water. Reverse osmosis is inexpensive to buy and install, and provides that second layer of peace of mind, but if the filters are not changed religiously, you will end up with water simular to my well water, full of bacteria and other contaminants. So, if you install an osmosis unit, only do so if you know in your heart you will change those filters, and will have the money available to do so when the time arises. Otherwise, your tap water is most likely fine, and some municipalities send out a lab report to citizens on a yearly basis stating the quality of your water. If concerned, water testing is inexpensive, look it up on the net if concerned, and have your tap water tested.
The primary design considerations for most coolant include contaminant mitigation, which includes ions in tap water.
Go to the grocery store, usually you can buy gallon containers of distilled/deionized water for a dollar a jug as its frequently used for "streak free" ironing and other laundry things. Way cheaper then the parts store.
Or use tap water but its certainly not optimal and I guarantee some places with rock-hard water will have issues. Here we get cruft on our faucets from it; I'd never use it in a car willingly.
But most coolants are "okay" with tap water. Not optimal but works.
Asian coolants on the other hand...
...Sometimes finding concentrated Asian (POAT, phosphated coolants) is next to impossible, only 50/50 mix. Why? Because phosphated coolants are enormously picky about other ions in the mix. Tap water mixed with that is a big red flag.
Edit: Also spring water, mountain water, bottled water, reverse osmosis filtered water whatever, its all a gimmick when it comes to cars and industrial uses for water. All potable water for human consumption contains mineral ions. Distilled and deionized water is essentially inert and contains none. Its actually dangerous to drink large amounts of distilled and deionized water as it will pull ions from your body to compensate: you can die from drinking it regularly.
Just because its clear and tastes good doesn't mean its good in a car. Vehicle coolant needs water without ions to prevent incompatibility. If you wanna use tap water or river water or whatever, it being very very clean water is a good start, and hopefully your coolant deals with the ions in it on its own. Most do but its always better to just not put them in in the first place if you can.
Go to the grocery store, usually you can buy gallon containers of distilled/deionized water for a dollar a jug as its frequently used for "streak free" ironing and other laundry things. Way cheaper then the parts store.
Or use tap water but its certainly not optimal and I guarantee some places with rock-hard water will have issues. Here we get cruft on our faucets from it; I'd never use it in a car willingly.
But most coolants are "okay" with tap water. Not optimal but works.
Asian coolants on the other hand...
...Sometimes finding concentrated Asian (POAT, phosphated coolants) is next to impossible, only 50/50 mix. Why? Because phosphated coolants are enormously picky about other ions in the mix. Tap water mixed with that is a big red flag.
Edit: Also spring water, mountain water, bottled water, reverse osmosis filtered water whatever, its all a gimmick when it comes to cars and industrial uses for water. All potable water for human consumption contains mineral ions. Distilled and deionized water is essentially inert and contains none. Its actually dangerous to drink large amounts of distilled and deionized water as it will pull ions from your body to compensate: you can die from drinking it regularly.
Just because its clear and tastes good doesn't mean its good in a car. Vehicle coolant needs water without ions to prevent incompatibility. If you wanna use tap water or river water or whatever, it being very very clean water is a good start, and hopefully your coolant deals with the ions in it on its own. Most do but its always better to just not put them in in the first place if you can.
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I have had a US Filter brand R/O system for sixteen years. It is a step up from the usual consumer grade system, but it is not quite industrial. I change my pre and post filters annually (the better systems allow for annual changes rather than twice yearly). I measure TDS to determine when to change the membrane - about every 3-5 years. My tap water is currently running about 180ppm and my product water is 6ppm. I have been using this in my batteries, coolant, etc. for many years and it is quite close enough to DI or distilled. My steam iron and coffee maker have never required cleaning, either.
The branded R/O waters like Dasani and Aquafina would probably be fine in a pinch because even though they add minerals "for flavor" they add very little and the TDS remains in the sub 10ppm range. In fact, Ozarka spring water reads only about 7ppm on my meter. You can purchase a TDS meter on eBay for about $10. It is simply a specialized type of conductivity meter.
I think you can go overboard worrying about minerals in your coolant mix.
The branded R/O waters like Dasani and Aquafina would probably be fine in a pinch because even though they add minerals "for flavor" they add very little and the TDS remains in the sub 10ppm range. In fact, Ozarka spring water reads only about 7ppm on my meter. You can purchase a TDS meter on eBay for about $10. It is simply a specialized type of conductivity meter.
I think you can go overboard worrying about minerals in your coolant mix.
Originally Posted By: Tuberocity
Forgot to mention I live in the area Arrowhead gets their water from, and have seen them in the mountains collecting water. However, rumers have it they also get water from other muiciple sources as a few people mentioned to me they saw the trucks in Fontana, CA filling the tanks. My gues would be this water is for thier distilled line, and not the Mountain Spring water they sell. Why distill mountain water when any water will do for this purpose, well most any. I live in an area currently that is on well water, on the property, and it is not potable/drinkable, but good for washing clothes, watering plants etc. It has too much bacteria and other contaminants; it would cost $1000's to install a filtering system to remove these.
Most tap water in the US is safe to drink as is, and is probably your best bet for drinking water. Reverse osmosis is inexpensive to buy and install, and provides that second layer of peace of mind, but if the filters are not changed religiously, you will end up with water simular to my well water, full of bacteria and other contaminants. So, if you install an osmosis unit, only do so if you know in your heart you will change those filters, and will have the money available to do so when the time arises. Otherwise, your tap water is most likely fine, and some municipalities send out a lab report to citizens on a yearly basis stating the quality of your water. If concerned, water testing is inexpensive, look it up on the net if concerned, and have your tap water tested.
No way! I worked at the Pali Institute in Running Springs - stopped by the Jensens in Arrowhead a lot. Arrowhead bottle water does indeed use multiple sources along the San Bernardino Mountains.
There are two types of "bottled" water you can purchase, spring and distilled. Spring water has minerals added, such as Dasani and Aquafina, best designed for consumption. Distilled water is the purest form of water you can purchase, most recommendable for special applications such as coolant.
Distilled water is the best water to use for coolant flush/dillution, and is what Prestone, Peak, etc. use for their 50/50 mix. Will your coolant system die if you use regular or spring water? Probably not.
Forgot to mention I live in the area Arrowhead gets their water from, and have seen them in the mountains collecting water. However, rumers have it they also get water from other muiciple sources as a few people mentioned to me they saw the trucks in Fontana, CA filling the tanks. My gues would be this water is for thier distilled line, and not the Mountain Spring water they sell. Why distill mountain water when any water will do for this purpose, well most any. I live in an area currently that is on well water, on the property, and it is not potable/drinkable, but good for washing clothes, watering plants etc. It has too much bacteria and other contaminants; it would cost $1000's to install a filtering system to remove these.
Most tap water in the US is safe to drink as is, and is probably your best bet for drinking water. Reverse osmosis is inexpensive to buy and install, and provides that second layer of peace of mind, but if the filters are not changed religiously, you will end up with water simular to my well water, full of bacteria and other contaminants. So, if you install an osmosis unit, only do so if you know in your heart you will change those filters, and will have the money available to do so when the time arises. Otherwise, your tap water is most likely fine, and some municipalities send out a lab report to citizens on a yearly basis stating the quality of your water. If concerned, water testing is inexpensive, look it up on the net if concerned, and have your tap water tested.
No way! I worked at the Pali Institute in Running Springs - stopped by the Jensens in Arrowhead a lot. Arrowhead bottle water does indeed use multiple sources along the San Bernardino Mountains.
There are two types of "bottled" water you can purchase, spring and distilled. Spring water has minerals added, such as Dasani and Aquafina, best designed for consumption. Distilled water is the purest form of water you can purchase, most recommendable for special applications such as coolant.
Distilled water is the best water to use for coolant flush/dillution, and is what Prestone, Peak, etc. use for their 50/50 mix. Will your coolant system die if you use regular or spring water? Probably not.
There are more than two. Dasani and Aquafina are not spring water. They are reverse osmosis water with a very slight mineral content, added back after R/O. Still FAR less than what is contained in tap water. Spring water is generally sourced from a natural spring and is purified and sanitized (with ozone and/or UV light). Then, you have "mineral water" which actually has a minimum ppm hardness standard, thus, the mineral content. You can also buy distilled, obviously, and even deionized. The latter two are the purest, but R/O is fine for any of your pure water needs - automotive and aquarium use included.
For the more generic R/O waters the label will generally say "drinking water" or "purified drinking water." The beauty of R/O water is that it can come from pretty much ANY source and still end up very clean.
Pepsico (Aquanfina) and Dasani (Coca Cola) more or less just bottle the water they normally use to make their soft drinks. By using R/O they can maintain consistency of the product regardless of the bottling plant.
For the more generic R/O waters the label will generally say "drinking water" or "purified drinking water." The beauty of R/O water is that it can come from pretty much ANY source and still end up very clean.
Pepsico (Aquanfina) and Dasani (Coca Cola) more or less just bottle the water they normally use to make their soft drinks. By using R/O they can maintain consistency of the product regardless of the bottling plant.
I used the wrong word in relation to spring water. Spring water is just filtered through a particulate and carbon process. I tend to equate the term "purified" with R/O, distillation, or deionization. With spring water you generally WANT to retain the mineral content.
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