Toyota WS fluid, Change it at 152k?

[umbg35]

Hi, I have a 08 Rx350 with 152K trouble free miles. All I have changed are filters, fluids, spark plugs, v-belt and struts. The only issue is once in a while lets say 6 times a year, I will get what's called a "transmission flare" where the RPM revs up 750-1000 (lasting 2 seconds) more than the usual gear shift between 3rd and 4th. I went to get some coolant yesterday and the parts guy told me that Toyota changed their policy and now recommend changing the Toyota WS at every 100K.

Is this true? Should I go ahead and change it at the dealer? The dealer wanted 250 for drain and fill.

A search of this issue on the internet basically came out inconclusive. It seems like most people do not ever change it since it's considered lifetime and it's not a DIY project.

If anyone has some insight it would be appreciated. I have newer Toyotas (10 sequoia, 12 higlander, 12 camry) with the WS and if it seems like people are changing it earlier, perhaps that is the way I'll go.

Thanks in advance.

 

[The Critic]

I've been doing a drain and refill of the WS fluid in my Prius every 30,000 miles. Of course, this is probably way overkill.

If your RX350 does not have the dipstick (most WS-equipped transmissions do not), then you will need Techstream to monitor the fluid temperature in order to perform an accurate fluid level check.

Some people choose to measure the exact amount that was drained out and replace with the same amount, but that method has its risks.

 

[btanchors]

The Critic -

What are the risks you mention? Hard to see what is wrong with replacing the exact amount that drained out. The only thing I could see is that the original level was wrong.

I think the need for the techstream is overstated - I know that is the procedure in the manual but I think you can get pretty close without it.

 

[LeakySeals]

Critic is right. He cant just replace what came out, because he has no idea if the current level is correct after 152k. Probably low. He cant add at any temp either, because of the way the fluid is added and level is measured on this transmission. On a traditional transmission dipstick you see a full cold, full hot mark for expansion. Pretty sure the OP has a U660E transmission. It has no measuring stick. Level is set via a fill bolt and an overflow bolt. U660E is sensitive to level, can flare if off by a small amount. There is no way to measure level other than the overflow bolt. Add fluid when its cold, wont overflow till its over filled. Have to add fluid when its hot so the fluid is expanded.

IMO: There is no such thing as a lifetime fluid. WS is good for about 50-60k. There are different ways to change the fluid. Drop the pan, use the 2 bolts to level. Pull the cooler line, let the transmission pump itself mostly dry, refill.

 

[pbm]

I don't believe that any fluid is 'lifetime' despite what the manufacturer claims....At 152K I would change the fluid asap.

 

[Bandito440]

Yeah. Change it how. I'd probably be doing it for the second time at 150k.

It's not necessarily applicable to your Lexus, but here's my WS thread. Someone came up with a good DIY method of changing the Tacoma's ATF. Maybe there's a Lexus one floating around the intertubes somewhere.

 

[Kestas]

The Critic is correct, there are risks with measuring the fluid. There are losses from spillage, drippage, clingage, and soaked into the towels before you read the level of old fluid in your container. Though if you work cleanly, it can be a good guess.

Change the fluid at your earliest convenience.

 

[umbg35]

Actually, my RX350 has a dipstick. I have done drain and fills on 02 Odyssey, 05 G35 and 06 TL. For all three, I did the following. Always on a cold car, no driving from the night before. The trans fluid also placed in the garage to be the exact temperature. Had two bone 5 quart jugs with the tops cut out to receive the old trans fluid. I would carefully drain into the jug, replace the drain plug, place the clear acrylic tube into the dipstick hole, filled with the exact amount and then shifted in all gears while parked.

The tube is always new and I had dedicated funnels for each brand.

Has anyone done it this way? I read that if the wrong amount is used the car won't start. Is this true? like +/- 2 oz? I am pretty OCD and take precautions to not let anything enter the system and use the exactly amounts.

 

[Bandito440]

If you've got a transmission dipstick, you're good to go. You don't need to be so careful about measuring the amount removed - just get the level right on the dipstick (per the manual - running at operating temperature if need be) when you refill. The dipstick should be the deciding factor, not the quantity removed.

Either do five drain and fills with some driving in between, or if there's a transmission cooler line you can do a full flush by the same method I used on my Tacoma.

Despite the panic of some alarmists, I used Maxlife ATF as a substitute for WS. It's synthetic and worked wonderfully and cost half of what the dealers wanted for conventional WS. Amsoil ATL is another great choice that I'd use for longer term. I don't plan on keeping my Tacoma much longer.

In September, I was on a road trip in a friend's 2008 Rav4. It had a slipping transmission that I blamed on it having the original black and rancid ATF. Details here. My suggestion for WS-equipped vehicles is flushes at 60k. I did my Tacoma at about 70 and it looked good, but it has a transmission cooler and has had an easy life.

 

[umbg35]

Thanks as usual for all the advice here on BITOG. It's one of the few reliable sources when it comes to car fluids/maintenance and any definitive answers to my problems at hand. You guys are the best.

I checked the fluid today cold. The color was light gray. There was some particles there and it did not smelled burnt. It was not pitch black like I expected like with engine oil after a 7K OCI. I will try to post pics before and after the flush.

I will probably do 2 drain and fills with WS at the next oil change and go from there. Although I like to save money as much as the next guy, I stick wtih OEM on coolant and ATF. Since I basically do 99% of my maintance I don't mind spending a little more here.

For my other vehicles I will do a FULL flush at 60K at Toyota. I want to keep the Sequoia FOREVER

I checked the Sequoia and Camry, they do not have a dipstick. The highlander is out and about right now and have a feeling it will not have one either.

The RX350 so far has only cost me ~$950 (since new, 7/2007) for maintenance which includes everything except tires: Engine oil, gear oil, filters, spark plugs, v-belt, 4 KY-b struts, 2 pcv valves, 2 radiator caps, brake pads, two fog light bulbs, battery, and crush washers. It has been the cheapest car to maintain in my fleet. I love this car, because it just keeps going without any fussing. When I think about it, it's ridiculous (at least to me) how cheap it has been to maintain this car. As you can see most my cars are Toyotas. Previous cars included 05 G35 coupe 162K (sold 5 months ago... oh no!), 04 Accord V6 coupe 200K, 02 Ody 120K (second trans went bad again), 03 TL Type S (3 transmissions by 74K)... all these cars had more maintenance that had to be done and more issues that needed to be fixed by a professional.

 

[Smokescreen]

I change my Corolla WS-ATF pretty much just like umbg35 did at 20K km (12,500 miles) I wanted to see if it matched the drain/fill specified in the owners manual. It was dead on. Ever since then I drain via the drain plug, fill via dipstick tube using the amount specified in the owners manual that same way every time at 30,000km -ish every spring) and my WS-ATF is always bright red only looking a micro shade different than brand new. My transmission always shifts exactly as it did when it was brand new and I still get the same awesome fuel economy.

Overkill....maybe, but my auto trans will be the last thing to go and WS-ATF is cheaper than any transmission repair.