Is this a good additive to add to engine oil or just snake oil?
ZDDP
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
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UOA's of STP Oil Treatment and other arent all that great
Go with a HDEO or Something like Defy, plenty of Zinc
Go with a HDEO or Something like Defy, plenty of Zinc
Originally Posted By: GumbyJarvis
UOA's of STP Oil Treatment and other arent all that great
Go with a HDEO or Something like Defy, plenty of Zinc
So,you're saying zinc is good for my Ford 4.2 V6?
UOA's of STP Oil Treatment and other arent all that great
Go with a HDEO or Something like Defy, plenty of Zinc
So,you're saying zinc is good for my Ford 4.2 V6?
It's an existing AW additive in most engine oil and all cheap engine oil. There are ZDDP additive boosters such as Red Line Break-In Additive if you want or feel you need to raise the ZDDP level of the the oil you are using.
But as with all good things too much can prove counter-productive and actually damage an engine by pitting bearings and other metal surfaces.
But as with all good things too much can prove counter-productive and actually damage an engine by pitting bearings and other metal surfaces.
It depletes under stress. Add it as needed (when the engine gets noisy) if you can find some good stuff. Forget stp and the likes.
ZDDP, in used since the late 1920s, is one of the best anti-wear additives one can put in a oil.
However, most oil manufacutes put a prescribed amount of ZDDP (or other related anti-wear agent) in their oils, already.
So, without knowing your application (vehicle and driving conditions) or the oil you have in the car (or are going to put in the car), one cannot say that adding ZDDP will be helpful or harmful.
Modern oils have been reformulated to lessen the ZDDP in oil in an attempt to make catalytic convertrs last longer. The P in ZDDP slowly degrades the catalyst performance as the oil burns over the 120K manufactures warentee on the Cats.
Modern engines need less ZDDP than older engines, as the vavle train has been rollerized, and other bearing surafces are made of material better able to deal with the stresses involved without large doses of ZDDP.
Given in applications where ZDDP is the "cats meow" for protection, you still don't want "too much" of it in the oil (causes deposits). Thus, say you do have an application where you desire more ZDDP. At this point you have to find out how much ZDDP is already present, what other agents are present, what mixed concentration you want to target, and then carefully measure the ZDDP to achieve your goals.
It is FAR from buy a bottle and pour it in. You basically have to know how to calculate these things.
So, summerizing: ZDDP is good stuff::en-the-RAW, too little is bad, too much is also bad.
However, most oil manufacutes put a prescribed amount of ZDDP (or other related anti-wear agent) in their oils, already.
So, without knowing your application (vehicle and driving conditions) or the oil you have in the car (or are going to put in the car), one cannot say that adding ZDDP will be helpful or harmful.
Modern oils have been reformulated to lessen the ZDDP in oil in an attempt to make catalytic convertrs last longer. The P in ZDDP slowly degrades the catalyst performance as the oil burns over the 120K manufactures warentee on the Cats.
Modern engines need less ZDDP than older engines, as the vavle train has been rollerized, and other bearing surafces are made of material better able to deal with the stresses involved without large doses of ZDDP.
Given in applications where ZDDP is the "cats meow" for protection, you still don't want "too much" of it in the oil (causes deposits). Thus, say you do have an application where you desire more ZDDP. At this point you have to find out how much ZDDP is already present, what other agents are present, what mixed concentration you want to target, and then carefully measure the ZDDP to achieve your goals.
It is FAR from buy a bottle and pour it in. You basically have to know how to calculate these things.
So, summerizing: ZDDP is good stuff::en-the-RAW, too little is bad, too much is also bad.
I've added zddpmaxx (half a bottle) to 4 litres of my Castrol TWS 10w60 oil.
I have flat tappets with hard springs in a 1988 boxer engine.
It needs a good zddp level and today's oils here do not have enough.
Had to replace cams and tappets a year ago!
Now all is smooth and cannot hear any valvetrain noise.
Very happy so far.
I have flat tappets with hard springs in a 1988 boxer engine.
It needs a good zddp level and today's oils here do not have enough.
Had to replace cams and tappets a year ago!
Now all is smooth and cannot hear any valvetrain noise.
Very happy so far.
Engine oil standards are developed by committees with members from three industries--car makers, oil makers, and chemical companies (that provide the additives). The proposed new oils are tested in actual engines and the wear measured or the amount of deposits determined. Keep in mind all the engines that either have a 100,000 mile factory warranty or a car-company backed extended warranty for that mileage. They are not going to let an oil pass that does not protect their engine.
Zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate has three main attributes. It is a good anti wear agent. It is a good anti oxidant agent. And it is cheap. There are other chemicals that do as well, or do even better when mixed with a small amount of ZDDP, but cost more. And, as stated above, the phosphate that evaporates from the ZDDP in the engine oil eventually kills catcons.
Use modern oil, right out of the jug, in a modern engine. If you have an older engine or modified engine, look first at a 10W-30 or 15W-40 or 5W-40 dual rated diesel and gasoline engine oil. Only buy a ZDDP additive if you know on excellent authority that your engine actually needs it.
Zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate has three main attributes. It is a good anti wear agent. It is a good anti oxidant agent. And it is cheap. There are other chemicals that do as well, or do even better when mixed with a small amount of ZDDP, but cost more. And, as stated above, the phosphate that evaporates from the ZDDP in the engine oil eventually kills catcons.
Use modern oil, right out of the jug, in a modern engine. If you have an older engine or modified engine, look first at a 10W-30 or 15W-40 or 5W-40 dual rated diesel and gasoline engine oil. Only buy a ZDDP additive if you know on excellent authority that your engine actually needs it.
Some photos of my damaged tappets most likely due to a lack of HP anti-wear additives. OC's were done every 4000kms and right grade was used.
Now I have new INA tappets and use a zddp booster. It's pure zddp, just topping up the existing package quantity. No harm in that IMHO.
But it is an old engine and the original oil is no longer made for this. No cat either.
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Now I have new INA tappets and use a zddp booster. It's pure zddp, just topping up the existing package quantity. No harm in that IMHO.
But it is an old engine and the original oil is no longer made for this. No cat either.
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I keep hearing that newer engines (roller cams not flat tappets etc etc) really dont need ZDDP and that it may actually hurt.. Others know WAY more about this than I.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Is this a good additive to add to engine oil or just snake oil?
Does your engine manufacturer recommend that you use oil additives? I pretty sure it doesn't. Modern engine oils already have the proper set of additives. Unless you have some 50-year-old engine, I would stay away from any such extra additives.
Is this a good additive to add to engine oil or just snake oil?
Does your engine manufacturer recommend that you use oil additives? I pretty sure it doesn't. Modern engine oils already have the proper set of additives. Unless you have some 50-year-old engine, I would stay away from any such extra additives.
Originally Posted By: pbm
Was ZDDP lessened progressively throughout the SAE ratings...SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM etc....?
yes
Quote:
Is it safe to say that the amount of phosphorus wouldn't matter (to cat. longevity) if the motor doesn't burn oil?
Depends on the motor and the application! New motors (post 2005) used for regular driving don't need as much as older engine (pre 95 and expecially pre 85) or engines used in high performance applications.
It also depends on your outlook for the vehicle! If you are trying to get 500K miles on the car versus you just want the car to last long enough for you to buy the next one.
Was ZDDP lessened progressively throughout the SAE ratings...SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM etc....?
yes
Quote:
Is it safe to say that the amount of phosphorus wouldn't matter (to cat. longevity) if the motor doesn't burn oil?
Depends on the motor and the application! New motors (post 2005) used for regular driving don't need as much as older engine (pre 95 and expecially pre 85) or engines used in high performance applications.
It also depends on your outlook for the vehicle! If you are trying to get 500K miles on the car versus you just want the car to last long enough for you to buy the next one.
Old STP had loads of ZDDP - it was beneficial when used as needed. . New stuff does not. It is basically a thickener, now.
Old V8s wore the cam and lifters anyway, with old high ZDDP oil or not.
If you have a pushrod/rocker system, I'd consider adding ZDDP additive. Or, use it with a fresh engine rebuild.
Nearly all modern engines don't need extra after break in.
Old V8s wore the cam and lifters anyway, with old high ZDDP oil or not.
If you have a pushrod/rocker system, I'd consider adding ZDDP additive. Or, use it with a fresh engine rebuild.
Nearly all modern engines don't need extra after break in.
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ZDDP is important in engine oil, but there is a better way to get more ZDDP than use an oil additive. Instead, buy an oil that already has high ZDDP. The nice thing about the VOA section is that you can read how much Zinc and Phosphorous is already in the oil.
Adding things to an existing engine oil can dilute the other additives, making the oil less effective. Other times oil additives change the viscosity of the oil being used, and that can cause other problems.
Adding things to an existing engine oil can dilute the other additives, making the oil less effective. Other times oil additives change the viscosity of the oil being used, and that can cause other problems.
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