Amsoil SSO 0W-30, 1993 Civic, 3,007 miles

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: nepadriver
I think he stated that he changes the oil as a hobby, and for enjoyment. He gives his "old" oil to his mechanic who re-uses it, so no waste. Not sure why anyone would want to "force" someone to do extended OCI's...if he finds it fun, why not let him do it?

Plenty of other people waste much more money than $100 a year on their hobbies. This is peanuts really.

I hope he keeps doing it for two reasons:
1) Tick off everyone who wants him to do 15k OCI since its what they do.
2) See how far his engine goes compared to similar engines doing 15k OCI's...I bet his goes further.


Yes.

I love changing oil as well; just a little higher mileage though.

 

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: nepadriver

I hope he keeps doing it for two reasons:
1) Tick off everyone who wants him to do 15k OCI since its what they do.


Agreed! I hate it when I post an oil analysis only to be attacked with a chorus of "too long", "too short", "why bother doing an analysis", "I wouldn't drive that heap of junk" etc. ad nauseum.

If you don't want to read an analysis... stay out of the analysis sections.

 

[harry j]

Vehicle miles 345,882
Miles on oil 3,877

Amsoil AZO 0W-30 oil (none added)
Eao36 oil filter
twin Filtermag CT3.2 magnetic filters
Golden Eagle magnetic drain plug
2 oz LAT anti-friction additive

Blackstone lab;

We said last time we'd not talk about Potassium, but it increased a little this time, which caught our attention. It's still hard to say for sure that it's coolant, but an increase is something to watch. We've been
seeing additives lately with potassium in them, but we're not sure if the additive you used (LAT anti-friction)has potassium. Copper saw an increase as well, showing more wear at brass/bronze parts. It's not high enough to call it a problem, but it is worth watching. The TBN was showing 3.1 showing plenty of active additive. Check back to monitor copper. We apologize for forgetting to do the particle counts and ISO oil cleanliness code.

Aluminum---4PPM
Chromium---1
Iron-------5
Copper-----8
Lead-------1
Tin--------1
Molybdenum-224
nickel-----0
Manganese--0
Silver-----0
titanium---0
Potassium-66
Boron-----66
Sodium----15
Silicon---18
Calcium---3690
Magnesium-16
Phosphorus-723
Zinc------824
Barium----0

SUS Viscosity @210 F--60.6
cST Viscosity 100 C-- 10.38
Flashpoint----400
Fuel %--->0.5%
Antifreeze%---?
Water----0
Insolubles%---0.4
TBN---3.1

ISO Code and particle counts not done (lab error of omission)


Notes:

I had the head retorqued while having a valve adjustment done.
Only one head bolt was loose.

 

[addyguy]

Silicon and insols. are very high for the miles, oil is very 'dirty'. This is causing 'some' extra piston wear, as 4ppm AL in 4k is high.

TBN is also very low for the miles on this oil, probably from the dirt and anti-freeze.

 

[ltslimjim]

Harry, does this Civic have VTEC? I read that the non-VTEC Civic 88-95 had an updated TSB regarding torque on replacement of the head/head gasket.

It does seem odd TBN is hit this hard. I wonder if coolant leaking could be from somewhere other than the head gasket?

Also, any thoughts of skipping the LAT additive for a bit during this process of watching for coolant?

Air & oil filtration seem sluggish a tic, but nothing major. The serious concern is coolant entry. However, decent 'wear' numbers so far.

 

[dnewton3]

Harry J -

At some point, it would be helpful if you'd use the block text tool to put your UOAs in a sensible manner so they are comparitive. Also, please include the "universal averages".

I'll admit I'm not inclined to read 27 pages just to "catch up" on all the info, so I'll ask some direct questions:

This thread has carried on for more than 100k vehicle miles, from the OP of 241k miles to this at 346k miles, right?

Have you still been fighting that same coolant issue for more than 100k miles?

Have you been doing OCIs every 3k miles, with Amsoil?????

Would you be open to the suggestion to try an inexpensive dino oil for those same 3k mile OCIs? (I marvel at the money you could be saving. I cannot imagine that the use of premium synthetics here is paying off in any manner.)

 

[harry j]

Itslimjim
It's a non-VTEC engine, just a 16 valve 1.5 liter.I have elected to eliminate any additives for this run, to see what is what. I am surprised by the low TBN level. I may have gone too far on the air filter, 13,000 miles. Performance suffered and the fuel mileage dropped. Now with a cleaned filter, fuel mileage is back up and performance has been restored.

I am waiting to see if the head retorque has had any effect on antifreeze intrusion. I will do an oil change at 3,000 miles to see.

 

[harry j]

Good suggestion dnewton3, I will include the universal averages from now on. What is the block text tool?

universal averages;

Aluminum------3
Chromium------1
Iron----------8
Copper--------3
Lead----------3
Tin-----------1
Molybdenum----75
Nickel--------0
Manganese-----0
Silver--------0
Titanium------0
Potassium-----4
Boron---------49
Silicon-------10
Sodium--------43
Calcium------2227
Magnesium-----99
Phosphorus----703
Zinc-----------827
Barium---------0

Code:


Aluminum------ 3

Chromium------ 1

Iron---------- 8

Copper-------- 3

Lead---------- 3

Tin----------- 1

Molybdenum---- 75

Nickel-------- 0

Manganese----- 0

Silver-------- 0

Titanium------ 0

Potassium----- 4

Boron--------- 49

Silicon------- 10

Sodium-------- 43

Calcium------ 2227

Magnesium----- 99

Phosphorus---- 703

Zinc-----------827

Barium---------0

 

[dnewton3]

It's the very code block you're using above. Just keep building the tab fields; makes for easy posting and building of history.

 

[ltslimjim]

There is a TSB about an updated way to torque down the head during a head gasket replacement job (any time the head is pulled).

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/tsb/civic/a97-047.pdf

PS: I hope you used new head bolts too. I've got a potential leak internally, so far I'm just monitoring. I hope it's not the head gasket on mine, but it's been psycho in that there isn't enough evidence outside of a block test which I may do next. Found POLARIS has a lab nearby. I may send them a sample and B_S next time for kicks.

 

[harry j]

I don't know if they used new head bolts for sure, but I doubt it. I would have been charged for a set for sure.
Thanks for the service bulletin, I will take it with me next time I go to the Honda place.

 

[harry j]

Vehicle mileage, 349,643
Miles on oil 3,761

Amsoil OW-30 AZO
EAO36 oil filter
Twin Filtermag CT3.2
Golden Eagle magnetic drain plug

Blackstone Labs; Wear metals look great once again in this sample from your Honda. Copper even dropped a little here. Posassium is really the only thing holding this sample back. Potassium has been the norm for this engine, but its increase does catch our attention. Silicon is also higher, but this level is hardly anything new. As long as the air filtration system is fine, it's not anything to lose sleep over. The TBN was 4.0 showing plenty of active additives. The ISO Cleanliness Code was 18/17/14, which is clean. Check back to moniter potassium. Fuel at 0.8% isn't a concern.

Code:
[/code]



Aluminum---4-----------3 universal average

Chromium---1-----------1

Iron-------7-----------8

Copper-----5-----------3

Lead-------1-----------3

Tin--------2-----------1

Molybdenum-189---------74

Nickel-----0-----------0

Manganese--0-----------0

Silver-----0-----------0

Titanium---0-----------0

Potassium--113---------4

Boron------58----------49

Silicon----19----------10

Sodium-----21----------46

Calcium----4077--------2205

Magnesium--18----------103

Phosphorus-755---------700

Zinc-------865---------823

Barium-----0-----------0



SUS Viscosity @ 210 deg F--59

cSt Viscosity @ 100 deg C--9.92

Flashpoint in deg F--------370

Fuel %----------0.8

Antifreeze------?

Water %---------0.0

Insoluables %---0.3

TBN-------------4



Particle count for ISO Code 18/17/14



>= 2 micron----2676

>= 5-----------991

>= 10----------274

>= 15----------106

>= 25----------25

>= 50----------2

>= 100---------0

The valves were adjusted at the start of the oil change interval and may have influenced the readings.

 

[buster]

The new SS line is using 4,000 ppm of calcium now. Highest it's ever been. Tbn is already down to 4 after 3,700 miles.

 

[harry j]

Yeah Buster, my engine seems to be hard on the TBN.

 

[skyship]

You are doing the right thing with a 3K OCI due to coolant and fuel contamination, but the results would be the same if you use a cheaper dino rather than an expensive full synthetic.
If you want to save more money I would just change oil filters alternate OCI. Minor fuel and coolant contamination will not block the oil filter.
It would obviously save money if you could sort out the problem with the head gasket, but if not then try a can of stop leak in the coolant and another can of oil stop leak to see if it helps.
The other change that might help with the leak is to try a 5/40.

 

[harry j]

I forsee a can of stop leak in my future.

 

[buster]

MaxLife has extra seal conditioners. fwiw. LOL

 

[skyship]

It might well be worth trying an HM oil, but not the cheap 15/40 ones as they would increase the cold start wear factors in winter. They would contain some stop leak additives, but a can of Liqui Moly stop leak is a better bet.

 

[harry j]

skyship, will the stop leak additives in the HM oils you cite, prevent antifreeze intrusion?

 

[skyship]

Probably not, although the coolant leak you have is quite small, which is why I recommended trying both an oil stop leak and a coolant one, as you might get lucky.
If you live in Florida and keep your car in a garage in winter, then you could consider not using anti freeze and switching to soluble oil for corrosion protection. It is the anti freeze that is the real oil killer not the water. The UOA will show any water up, but most of it tends to evapourate, so if you are able to stop using anti freeze then looking at your UOA results it might be possible to extend the OCI to 5K miles. The fuel contamination figure is fairly low and not so important.