Is Toyota 0W-20 SN made in heaven?

[buster]

The average driver will most likely not see the benefits of M1 AFE over TGMO 0w20. So for your average drive, the TGMO might be more valuable. If you were to subject both to extrem cold/heat, you'd start to see the difference. For example, something like the SEQ IIIG or HTO-06 test.

Of all the oils I have tried in the Honda 2.4L over the course of 157,000 miles, M1 AFE 0w20/30 kept the engine the quietest, from my observation. The SN stuff though, NOT SM.

 

[afoulk]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: buster
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.


I wouldn't say that M1 AFE keeps the 2.4L the quietest among all oils. It does run well in there, but I've found at least one other oil that is quieter, and it's what's in the sump of mine right now.


which oil is that?

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: afoulk
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: buster
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.


I wouldn't say that M1 AFE keeps the 2.4L the quietest among all oils. It does run well in there, but I've found at least one other oil that is quieter, and it's what's in the sump of mine right now.


which oil is that?


Look at his signature.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: afoulk
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I wouldn't say that M1 AFE keeps the 2.4L the quietest among all oils. It does run well in there, but I've found at least one other oil that is quieter, and it's what's in the sump of mine right now.


which oil is that?


See my signature below. Valvoline MaxLife NextGen 5W-20. I ran at least two OCIs of M1's 0W-20, but have the VMLNG 5W-20 in it now because of the free-after-rebate deal from the Valvoline Q&A on here. I must say, it's quietest in my engine so far, and I was surprised by that.

Next fill, though, will be PP 0W-20. So we'll see how that does in it.

 

[tig1]

Since I only use M1 0-20, I can't speake for other oils but my engines are very quite and smooth. At presant I have 9200 miles on the oil in the Focus and it remains very quite. The engines remain very clean.

 

[Colt]

I have one oil change of Toyota 0w20 SM left and like the fact it has a lot of moly.
I haven't been reading about the difference between the SN and SM.Only that the SN has very little moly.
How is the SN vs the SM?
Which is better?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: mongo161
....
What about this other synthetic that people rave about....Royal Purple. This oil is also "Pure Synthetic" in all grades from 5w-20 to 20w-50.

...
I highly doubt the RP API approved oil is majority IV/V base. Likely a blend of grpIII and FA esters like most other std 0w20 formulations. "Pure synthetic" is a marketing term just like "full synthetic" and NEITHER is majority synthetic higher group based.You have to look to Amsoil, redline and German and French euro spec LL oils to get the classic definition of "true" synthesized base oils.
If you have "Sherlock" tendencies, you'll research and see a pour point below 50deg, very low CCS cP # and excellent volatility performace - OTW, Drink advertising coolaid and get bamboozeled

 

[buster]

LOL!! +1

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: G-MAN




I'd be willing to bet that this Toyota oil is nothing more than rebranded Mobil Super Synthetic 0w20.

It can't be, as the specs on that oil are different, it's got a much lower viscosity index of only 176.


Probably similar base oil, different formulation overall though. Just a guess.

 

[ottotheclown]

Thank you for your thread!Well put so much so,

would you think of public office?I am not kidding. That is exactly how real life works!! We seem so in need for a cure all!! Sounds like every sports station talking about the new quarterback before the season begins!! Lets see a uoa or so and remember it is Toyota who do not appear as the sharpest tack anymore.

 

[Blazered]

"As a result, gears shift smoothly at low engine output."

Wow, that's impressive. I've never seen a motor oil that works its way into the transmission before.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Blazered
"As a result, gears shift smoothly at low engine output."

Wow, that's impressive. I've never seen a motor oil that works its way into the transmission before.


Angels bless every single bottle

 

[CATERHAM]

Buster, the TGMO can't use the same base oil to Mobil Super at least in terms of base oil viscosity due to their widely different VIs. The TGMO does use lighter base oil stocks than every other 20wt sold in NA with the possible exception of Sustina. Having said that I do agree it is likely GP III based.

I'm pleased that Gorkhan has come in from the dark side and is impressed with the performance of this oil. I think every 20wt oil user should try this oil at least once and form their own opinion. There is no question it is the most fuel efficient oil available (notwithstanding Sustina) and at nominally 5 bucks a quart it is a very good value.
That said I'm not convinced the lower moly and no boron SN version is an improvement on the SM version. We don't know conclusively if the SN version is using the tri-nuclear moly and even if they are whether the lower concentration performs as well. For example, Mobil still sees a value in using boat loads of moly in their race oils; something like 1600 ppm. Which version of moly are they using here? Likely the best available so I'm not convinced lower concentrations of tri-nuclear moly equates to the higher concentrations of the Japanese sourced moly the SM version used.
It could simply be a cost cutting measure and unless someone from Mobil comes out and tells us we likely will never know.

Regardless of the AW make-up the SN version is a great product with likely improved viscometrics due to it's lower kinematic viscosity spec's over the previous SM Mobil and Nippon Oil made versions of the oil.

 

[Cristobal]

Check out the next sale at Longo Toyota Parts Dept. I bet you can get it for less then. A while back they were selling it for $4.76/quart.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Blazered
"As a result, gears shift smoothly at low engine output."

Wow, that's impressive. I've never seen a motor oil that works its way into the transmission before.


Angels bless every single bottle

Engines and transmissions work in harmony. If your engine, especially a low-output engine, is not producing sufficient power, the gear shifts will be harsh. Through the added horsepower of reduced friction by Toyota 0W-20, which contains Group III+ and/or IV/V base oil and likely the Infineum trinuclear moly, the engine is less sluggish and the gears shift better as a result.

 

[Kruse]

If you had ten identical cars and five of them had Toyota synthetic motor oil and five of them had something else, could you determine which cars had the synthetic oil (and which of them did not) by riding blindfolded or just by using the butt dyno?
By reading your post, you obviously could.
Please contact Toyota and volunteer yourself as a laboratory test subject. And when you do pick out each car with synthetic oil, Toyota will verify the results, probably use you on a TV commercial and you will instantly be famous. (And please don't cheat by smelling the oil.....)

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: G-MAN

I'd be willing to bet that this Toyota oil is nothing more than rebranded Mobil Super Synthetic 0w20.

It can't be, as the specs on that oil are different, it's got a much lower viscosity index of only 176.

Probably similar base oil, different formulation overall though. Just a guess.

Toyota 0W-20 is an entirely different oil than both M1 Super 0W-20 and M1 AFE 0W-20.

It has a much higher viscosity index than both.

M1 Super is an Afton-liquid-titanium oil with no moly of any kind. Toyota, like the regular M1 (AFE), has no titanium at all but it has moly, probably the Infineum trinculear moly.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Colt
I have one oil change of Toyota 0w20 SM left and like the fact it has a lot of moly.
I haven't been reading about the difference between the SN and SM.Only that the SN has very little moly.
How is the SN vs the SM?
Which is better?

Well, SN is simply a better, more advanced spec than SM. Asking if SN is better than SM is in some sense not too different than asking if SM is better than SF.

Infineum, coowned by ExxonMobil and Shell, invented, patented, and makes the trinuclear moly. About 50 - 100 ppm of moly from the trinuclear-moly molecules (which have three Mo atoms per molecule) results in the maximum reduction in fuel economy and maximum protection against engine wear. It's a much, much better formulation of moly than it was used in the SM formulation of Toyota 0W-20 (Akeda S-100 moly from Asaki Denka Kogyo K.K. of Japan), which was dumped into the oil in extremely high concentrations (600 ppm or so) with the hope that it would reduce the fuel economy more. 75 ppm of trinuclear moly gives much better performance than poorly formulated moly such as the Akeda S-100 moly. While there is no proof that Toyota 0W-20 uses trinuclear moly, this is what makes sense most, as ExxonMobil ownes Infineum and Toyota would absolutely not settle for anything less than the best fuel economy, as their main marketing strategy is to crate the most fuel-efficient cars.

Is Toyota 0W-20 better than M1 AFE 0W-20? I think so, but of course, you never know. I think, as CATERHAM said, it definitely has higher fuel-efficiency (less friction) than M1 AFE 0W-20 not only because of the really high viscosity index (216) but also the quality friction modifiers and base oil, along with Toyota's pressure to make the most fuel-efficient oil possible.

The base oil used in it would have to be at least Group III+ like in Sustina because of the extremely high viscosity index. Chances are that ExxonMobil threw in at least some Group IV/V in it. Also remember that Toyota specifies 10,000-mile OCI on its new cars with this oil, meaning that the base oils used in Toyota 0W-20 would have to be really high quality in order to withstand oxidation in prolonged OCIs. Group IV certainly withstands the oxidation most, followed by Group III+.

 

[CATERHAM]

The first time I filled one of my cars with the Toyota 0W-20 and started it up I thought their was a problem with my oil pressure gauge as the cold reading was so low as a result of the oil being so light on start-up.
I'm not one for subjective evaluations but most people can notice the difference between large differences in oil grades, say a 20wt and a 40wt; i.e., the car being so much more sluggish with the 40wt particularly when cold.
Well there is a similar difference in actual operational viscosity on start-up between the Toyota 0W-20 and a typical 5W-20, even a 5W-20 synthetic. It's about 35% lighter at room temperature and more than 50% at 0C.
That is a lot and most people who have tried the 216 VI Toyota oil vs a 150 VI or so 5W-20 have noticed an improvement in engine responsiveness. In fact most can notice a differnce over a typical 170 VI 0W-20 like M1 AFE.

 

[Solarent]

While the debate about whether or not this Toyota Branded Oil is or is not XOM something is interesting one thing that has thusfar been left out is the API donut used on the jug.

API rules for use is that the oil has to pass all the testing in order to use the donut. If you repackage someone else's oil (such as Toyota has done here) you can continue to use the donut based on the original marketer's certification. IF YOU CHANGE ANY PART of the formula then it must be retested which can take up to 2 years and lots of money (I'm not saying that Toyota didn't do this, but it seems like a lot off unnecessary hassle and business expense.)

There are some additive packages that can be purchased from Infineum, Lubrizol, Afton etc which when blended per their instructions can automatically meet the API requirements and it is possible that XOM has done this for them based on Toyota's base oil requirements. OR XOM may have had one of their 3rd party blenders do just the Toyota oil for them to cut down on the hassles of production.