2011 Volkswagen Jetta S

[JTK]

I was checking some of these out the other day at a local V-dub dealer lot. They seem like a decent amount of new car for ~$16K. I like the look of them.

Does the basic 2.0L 8-valve SOHC gas 4cyl still use a timing belt? 115hp, 125ft/lbs seems a bit old-school, but I like old school!

Thanks for any input.

Joel

 

[Burt]

VW is taking a drubbing from the critics for moving Jetta down the scale, but that does not mean its a bad car. I am glad that they kept the sportwagen based on the Golf though.

 

[FowVay]

At $16K I think it would be a excellent entry-level vehicle. The 2 liter engine does use a timing belt and is a very old and inefficient design but for the price you can overlook it. Just don't expect to be buying a Audi underneath the VW skin. Volkswagen took great strides to decontent the new Jetta in order to bring the price down.

While I prefer the 2009/2010 model Jetta with all of the fine attention to detail, they cost considerably more and most people simply didn't appreciate what they were paying for. Multi-link rear suspension, hydraulic prop rods on hood and fancy exotic linkage on trunk lid complete with hydraulic cylinders went unappreciated by the Civic/Corolla/Cruze/Elantra crowd. Four-wheel disc brakes, electric steering, fancy multi-function display computer and even neat little holder in the trunk to hold your grocery bags was just money down the drain.

So, the newest Jetta S gives you a engine, albeit a engine from 1980, and they give you a automatic transmission complete with torque converter and "slush box" moniker. A straight 'girder beam' rear axle capped with a set of drum brakes and a prop rod to hold the hood open help to keep costs in line. Don't look for a sound deadening hood pad on that hood or look for the fancy little latch cover that shielded the trunk latch from foreign debris. That was all just unappreciated expense.

I personally dislike the direction VW took the newest iteration of the Jetta. But according to recent sales data VW made the right decision. It's all about sales and they are up.. WAY UP!

If you want the German versions you can still get them. Just be prepared to pay the price to have it nice.

I'd buy a new Jetta. Even with all of the decontenting they have done they're still head and shoulder above any other car in that particular class. Get the 5-speed!

 

[Quattro Pete]

How old is this engine design now? 20 years? 30 years? 115hp in a 3000 lbs sedan? What happened to VWs being a "driver's car"? With this level of performance, it's more of a "grandpa's car", but if the performance aspects don't matter, I guess it's a decent looking car. Reliability remains to be seen since it was recently redesigned (cheapened). But since VW reliability wasn't that great to begin with, I suppose it can't get any worse...

Regardless of what VW did, it appears to be working as the sales of Jetta have picked up noticeably.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I just "built" my own on their website. The interior looks spartan but I'm fine with that....perhaps the fewer electronic things they have to fail, the more reliable it will be. Looks good to me.
It's a timing chain according to the website.

My 2001 Civic A/T had 117hp.......

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch

It's a timing chain according to the website.


Good catch. I didn't see that. According to the "Technical Data": "Valve train: Camshaft, chain driven with automatic tensioner, two valves per cylinder, double coil valve springs"

Then again, could be wrong.

Joel

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch
It's a timing chain according to the website.

Interesting. They must have made some updates to it recently.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
How old is this engine design now? 20 years? 30 years? 115hp in a 3000 lbs sedan? What happened to VWs being a "driver's car"? With this level of performance, it's more of a "grandpa's car", but if the performance aspects don't matter, I guess it's a decent looking car. Reliability remains to be seen since it was recently redesigned (cheapened). But since VW reliability wasn't that great to begin with, I suppose it can't get any worse...

Regardless of what VW did, it appears to be working as the sales of Jetta have picked up noticeably.


Ill be the first one to argue that 115hp is MORE than enough for a 3000 lb car to drive across country, anywhere, over and over again safely.

That said, an outdated design that likely doesnt yield the best fuel economy (is it over 34 MPG like other 2L engines are?) is just plain dumb to me. I wouldnt buy that car for many reasons, the first of it being that it is Mexican-made. But beyond that, the steps back in technology are really gross.

Maybe we dont need much better than that to drive along. I get that, and I tend to agree. But some things like disc brakes just seem to me to be a no brainer, and ive yet to understand really how these outdated technologies really save the mfr money.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ill be the first one to argue that 115hp is MORE than enough for a 3000 lb car to drive across country, anywhere, over and over again safely.

Yeah, yeah, you keep saying it, but you don't practice what you preach.

Try executing a swift on-ramp merge onto the highway in your diesel Mercedes. You'll get run over if you're not fast, at least around here.

Quote:

That said, an outdated design that likely doesnt yield the best fuel economy (is it over 34 MPG like other 2L engines are?) is just plain dumb to me. I wouldnt buy that car for many reasons, the first of it being that it is Mexican-made. But beyond that, the steps back in technology are really gross.

Maybe we dont need much better than that to drive along. I get that, and I tend to agree.

VW has obviously changed their market strategy in the us. They moved away from being performance/driver oriented to being econoboxes, competing with KIA. But this target market is larger, as typical American family budgets shrink for various reasons. I just hope VW is prepared for a price war with the Koreans. Koreans can do the same thing, but cheaper, and probably more reliably, too.

 

[97tbird]

They cheapened the interior material and comforts a lot for the 2011 model, and it's well documented everywhere. I think it's probably best to find one from previous gen. even if it's slightly used. I hate when car companies cheapen stuff on purpose and sell it for a higher price, just because it's the current/new model/gen.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
I hate when car companies cheapen stuff on purpose and sell it for a higher price,

Actually, in the case of Jetta, they're selling it at a lower price. That's why the sales have picked up so much. Just proves that most people in the US just want basic transportation, and VW certainly wants a piece of that action.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: FowVay

While I prefer the 2009/2010 model Jetta with all of the fine attention to detail, they cost considerably more and most people simply didn't appreciate what they were paying for. Multi-link rear suspension, ...and fancy exotic linkage on trunk lid complete with hydraulic cylinders went unappreciated by the Civic/Corolla/Cruze/Elantra crowd. Four-wheel disc brakes,....


I would agree with you except the Civic started getting those things and double wishbone front suspension back in 1988 when the MK2 Jetta was still dragging around a twist beam out back and an 8 valve engine under the hood. By '92 the Civic EX sedan had a 16valve engine with VTEC, double wishbone front suspension, multi-link rear suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS, front and rear swaybars....etc..., and didn't have luggage crunching gooseneck hinges in the trunk.

In 2001, the double wishbone went away for the Civic. None of the buyers you are talking about noticed the change nor did they notice the extra inch or two of footwell space. So mostly I agree with you.

 

[FowVay]

I just looked at the technical specifications on the 2.0 liter. It does appear to be a nicely upgraded version of the old BEV engine. I notice they also upped the alternator to a much more appropriate 140 amp unit instead of the old 70 amp model.

Maybe it gets better fuel economy to boot. The old model didn't do too great with that. Maybe I'm being much too hard on VW.

Oh well,, I'm a TDI guy anyway. :O)

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: FowVay
Maybe it gets better fuel economy to boot.

According to EPA, it does, at least when compared to a 2001 model that we used to own:

2001 2.0 manual: 21/28
2011 2.0 manual: 24/34

2001 2.0 auto: 20/26
2011 2.0 auto: 23/29


Our 2001 auto actually got pretty disappointing MPG. Never saw better than 24 MPG, even with significant hwy driving.

 

[JTK]

It seems hard to believe they'd do any significant mods to a ~115hp 8-valve SOHC engine, such as going from a T-belt to a chain? That's a whole lotta re-do.

Belt or not isn't a concern for me for an econo 4cyl like this. In this particular instance, a timing belt is probably better.

I personally LOVE the idea of a good looking, not too small, low tech version of a vehicle such as this. Things like rear drum brakes for instance. I personally have much better luck / service life with them. All my rear disk equipped vehicles require yearly maintenance if you want them to last more than 25-30Kmi (my current Hyundai and Honda for instance).

Rear beam axle? Love it.

If I ever did decide to trade the Santy for one of these, it definitely would be for a 5spd "S". Thing is- I bet they're near impossible to get.

My last experience with a Jetta was with a 1999 model I helped get for my SIL. It was the first roll-out of the more rounded body style. It was a fun car but consumed oil at an alarming rate, had some annoying interior hardware issues and had an almost constant check engine light once she got around 75-80K miles on it. At one point I recall adding over 3qts of oil to it and it still ran like a top!

Joel

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: JTK
but consumed oil at an alarming rate,

Hopefully 12 years was enough time for VW to teach those Mexican factory workers not to install those engine gaskets up side down.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

According to EPA, it does, at least when compared to a 2001 model that we used to own:

2001 2.0 manual: 21/28
2011 2.0 manual: 24/34

2001 2.0 auto: 20/26
2011 2.0 auto: 23/29


Our 2001 auto actually got pretty disappointing MPG. Never saw better than 24 MPG, even with significant hwy driving.




I am baffled at how a 2.0L engine can get such horrible mileage like that. My Corvette's 5.7L engine, with about 375hp, does better than that! It'll do 32 MPG highway, and in my daily commute I average 22 MPG, and it's an automatic with the optional 3.15 gears, an auto with 2.73 gears or the 6 speed manual with it's 0.50 overdrive (and 3.42 rear) will do even better.

 

[Spazdog]

I gotta' wonder about VW.

They will send the Mexican made Jetta downmarket but they won't give us another shot at the Brazilian made Gol (Fox when we had it)

It's from Brazil so it'll run on E-85, the US Dollar is better against the Real than the Euro. (US Dollars are even more favorable against the Mexican Peso though

)

As far as the 2.0, the 80's Audi 4000 1.8 weighed nearly as much, made less horsepower and was a very nice open freeway car. I hope the Jetta S carries a little of that DNA with it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Quote:
As far as the 2.0, the 80's Audi 4000 1.8 weighed nearly as much, made less horsepower and was a very nice open freeway car.


Audi 4000: 2340/102 = 23 lb/hp
Jetta 2.0: 2900/115 = 25 lb/hp

You're right though that acceleration times are very comparable (around 10s 0-60). 30 years ago, that may have been a respectable number for a sporty sedan. Today, you'll find it difficult to get out of people's way with that kind of performance. But once you're at speed on the freeway, I agree you don't need much to keep you going.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JTK
but consumed oil at an alarming rate,

Hopefully 12 years was enough time for VW to teach those Mexican factory workers not to install those engine gaskets up side down.

LOL! Wasn't it a piston ring installation issue? I did the basic maintenance for her at the time and recall pulling the dipstick on several occasions to find nothing but a tiny strip of black at the tip. The thing never let out a puff of blue, the exhaust never smelled of oil, no knocks, no fuss from that 2.0L at all! She did a lot of driving from NJ to Buffalo at the time and recall that 2.0L / 5spd to scream pretty good at hywy speeds. She owned it from ~35Kmi to ~90 something K.

I actually traded that Jetta in for her on a brand-new 2003 Isuzu Rodeo 4x4, 5spd. Barely made it into the Isuzu dealer parking lot. CEL on, random stalling, it had just under 100Kmi on it, but still looked excellent in/out. I got a really good trade-in value on it at the time, with no hassle at all. They basically printed out the KBB 'excellent condition' value and handed it to me. It couldn't argue with that.

Joel