BMW N55 Turbo-charged Engine Oil

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My point is that the assumption that the z4 has an n55 may not be correct depending upon model, and that it is still apples to oranges as the cooling setup in a z4 is different than a 135 regardless...

I drove the Z4 sDrive35i...NOT the sDrive35is. It has the N55 engine, not the N54 that's in the sDrive35is. I was reporting the oil temps. that I observed and for reference I also reported the oil temps I've observed in my 2008 135i. No apples to apples comparison is required or implied.

 

[JHZR2]

Fair enough. But that said, I think it is premature to imply that the N55 has a heat problem any more/less than the N54 in standard form does.

The "boosted" N54 likely has all the BMW performance package cooling add-ons installed OE.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: shortyb
Its my understanding that the new Z4is and the 335is retain the more tunable N-54 engine with a slight boost increase to give a "rated" 320hp. As anyone who has been interested knows, BMW's figures for this engine are very conservative. Look what Steve Dinan does with just a software upgrade. Incidently, give him a ring if you want a proper oil cooler for your N54/55.


The 335is is simply fitted with the BMW Performance Power Kit . It comes with an "auxiliary radiator".

 

[JHZR2]

Not so sure about that. The is models actually have a boost mode and torque as high as 37x ft-lb. Cooling is an integral part but it is beyond the performance kit.

And, FWIW, this was a driver for the DCT, as the performance kit numbers were constrained due to limitations in the MT and AT torque handling capability.

 

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted By: FrenchTex
Hey Guys,

This is only my second post here, but since I own a 535i, I did quite a bit of research on oil and OCI and think I may be able to offer "some" insight:
- PN 07510002545 is in fact an old PN, and it was superceded by PN 07510017866 which is indeed the BMW synthetic 5W30. BMW, at least in the US, only offers this oil for all gasoline engines


I'm sorry sir, but this is backward. I have a 335I, and 866 part number was put into my car by the dealership, and it lasted only 2,000 miles, before complete degradation was shown by my oil analyzer. The dealership then changed it with 2445, and the degradation did not begin until 7,500 miles, of driving. PN 07510002545 is also whats written on my car. For the N54/55, what is needed is a PAO based LL01 oil. Motul, and Total make several oils that fit the bill. so does castrol, and perhaps mobil.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Not so sure about that. The is models actually have a boost mode and torque as high as 37x ft-lb. Cooling is an integral part but it is beyond the performance kit.

And, FWIW, this was a driver for the DCT, as the performance kit numbers were constrained due to limitations in the MT and AT torque handling capability.


The BMW NA website states that the 335is engine develops 320 hp and 300 lb.-ft. of torque at 1,500 rpm.

 

[JHZR2]

I'm at the BMW Performance Center and are happy to inform that despite flogging my test 135i seriously like my wife and I stole it, we cannot get past a tick over 250 on the oil temp meter... And it drops QUICK! 85F ambient.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: MCompact


The BMW NA website states that the 335is engine develops 320 hp and 300 lb.-ft. of torque at 1,500 rpm.


Do a searchfor overboost mode - around 322hp/369lbft for up to seven seconds.

 

[MCompact]

Well, if the overboost only lasts seven seconds, I'd be interested to see how that functions on a track like Road Atlanta or Mid Ohio.

 

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I'm at the BMW Performance Center and are happy to inform that despite flogging my test 135i seriously like my wife and I stole it, we cannot get past a tick over 250 on the oil temp meter... And it drops QUICK! 85F ambient.


err. yeah, you might not have a problem with temps because the course your on is not as tasking. I've raced with a 135I at the autobahn country club's full course, and that dude got slower and slower with each lap, because he was far exceeding 250 deg F. its repeated 60-120's that really heat up the oil.

 

[JHZR2]

Well it did cause an M5 to overheat...

 

[Craig in Canada]

It's important to keep in mind that we're speaking about two completely different scenarios:

One is whether any N54/N55 equipped BMW is suitable from the factory for open track days, and just how hot the oil gets.

It is a separate issue whether those same cars have oil temperature problems in street use.

While interesting, knowing that a stock 135i exceeded 250F oil temps while *racing* is not the same as knowing whether your new 135i you drive to work will explode in 50k miles due to oil problems.

IMO, if you're going to the track for any serious running (not just a couple of hot laps at a time at a drivers ed event) ANY car needs a real, thermostatically controlled oil-air cooler. If you don't have one, you're running a risk. Ask my buddy who raced his stock Maxima on weekends with no oil cooler and then punched a hole in the block one afternoon just driving home from a friends. He called it a coincidence but I don't think so.

BMW is a "sporting brand", but I don't believe they make claims that anything other than possibly their M cars are "track ready". Porsche, on the other hand, seems to build their average factory spec to be ready for light to medium track duty out of the box.

 

[JHZR2]

As mentioned, multiple m5 cars overheated today doing continued hot laps. About an hour of continued use of the 135i yielded a tick over 250.

While I concur regarding all mentioned, it is an interesting thing all the same to me. Were the m5 cars being pushed harder? Perhaps. But it doesn't make the fact that I couldn't get the 135i to overtemp that was interesting... I was in one of the m5's when it cut power. Not fun.

 

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada

IMO, if you're going to the track for any serious running (not just a couple of hot laps at a time at a drivers ed event) ANY car needs a real, thermostatically controlled oil-air cooler. If you don't have one, you're running a risk. Ask my buddy who raced his stock Maxima on weekends with no oil cooler and then punched a hole in the block one afternoon just driving home from a friends. He called it a coincidence but I don't think so.
BMW is a "sporting brand", but I don't believe they make claims that anything other than possibly their M cars are "track ready". Porsche, on the other hand, seems to build their average factory spec to be ready for light to medium track duty out of the box.


I agree that with a lot of what you wrote. The N54 will not have any issue holding temps in street or highway conditions as long as you are running a PAO based LL01 formulation. Even though BMW does not make claims about their non-M car's track performance, for the price paid, its was pretty sad to see my 335I/friends 135I at the autobahn, perform as two lap chumps. Mustangs of all era's, vettes, vipers, S2k's, lotus, sti/lancers, all singing lap after lap, while we steady lost ground. The engine oil cooling leaves much to be desired. I'd suggest a lower temp thermostat, a racing fan switch, and a racing radiator cap, for a cheap drop in temps.

 

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
As mentioned, multiple m5 cars overheated today doing continued hot laps. About an hour of continued use of the 135i yielded a tick over 250.

While I concur regarding all mentioned, it is an interesting thing all the same to me. Were the m5 cars being pushed harder? Perhaps. But it doesn't make the fact that I couldn't get the 135i to overtemp that was interesting... I was in one of the m5's when it cut power. Not fun.


Sir, you didn't push your 135I, at a full race course. those cone, HPDE's are nothing to sneeze at. Two laps into road america, sebring, willow springs, pocono, etc, and your 135I, will cut power, Period. The 370Z, and G37's have the exact same cooling issue. They cut down power too. except that according to nissan, the installation of an aftermarket oil cooler voids your warranty. Go figure.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada

IMO, if you're going to the track for any serious running (not just a couple of hot laps at a time at a drivers ed event) ANY car needs a real, thermostatically controlled oil-air cooler. If you don't have one, you're running a risk. Ask my buddy who raced his stock Maxima on weekends with no oil cooler and then punched a hole in the block one afternoon just driving home from a friends. He called it a coincidence but I don't think so.

BMW is a "sporting brand", but I don't believe they make claims that anything other than possibly their M cars are "track ready".



I regularly tracked the following BMWs:
1973 Bavaria 3.0
1987 535is
1988 M6
1995 318ti Club Sport
The only track-related wear I ever noted was to brake pads and tires. Ditto for my current Mazdaspeed 3 track toy.
Last time I checked, the 5er had over 300K miles on the original engine, but the head gasket was seeping a bit of oil. I still have the ti, and I lapped Road Atlanta with it just last year. 121K miles with no issues.
I also drove the wheels off an Alpina B7 press loaner at Motorsport Ranch in Texas:

The only thing that put a premature end to the fun was the fact that I seriously chewed up the RF tire- and I had to drive the car @1000 miles back home...

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Turkeybaster115

Two laps into road america, sebring, willow springs, pocono, etc, and your 135I, will cut power, Period. The 370Z, and G37's have the exact same cooling issue. They cut down power too. except that according to nissan, the installation of an aftermarket oil cooler voids your warranty. Go figure.


The 370Z's brakes are also less than track ready- as Car and Driver found out.
I expected to have some issues with the MS3, but the only problem has been the weak-kneed OEM struts and shocks(soon to be replaced with Bilstein HDs). I should probably install an oil temperature gauge, but after my first track outing in the car a UOA revealed that wear metals, viscosity, and TBN were all in good shape(I run 5W-30 M1). At 63K it's still good to go.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Turkeybaster115


I agree that with a lot of what you wrote. The N54 will not have any issue holding temps in street or highway conditions as long as you are running a PAO based LL01 formulation. Even though BMW does not make claims about their non-M car's track performance, for the price paid, its was pretty sad to see my 335I/friends 135I at the autobahn, perform as two lap chumps. Mustangs of all era's, vettes, vipers, S2k's, lotus, sti/lancers, all singing lap after lap, while we steady lost ground. The engine oil cooling leaves much to be desired. I'd suggest a lower temp thermostat, a racing fan switch, and a racing radiator cap, for a cheap drop in temps.


I understand where it comes from, but you have to get this "for the price paid" thing out of your head.

"For the price paid", you purchased a STREET CAR which is arguably more refined and engineered than a Mustang. Can you think of any reasons you bought a 335i instead of a Mustang?

"For the price paid" if you want to go to the track in a serious way you should protect that investment with a track-ready oil cooler.

"For the price paid" it looks like BMW will allow you to fit a serious oil cooler (Dinan's) without voiding your warranty.

"For the price paid" another $1k may not be outrageous to never worry about this issue again and if I just bought one of these cars brand new I'd be tempted to include a real oil cooler in my budget even if I never took it to the track.

Have you also paid to fit track-ready pads, harness systems, roll bars, fire extinguishers, regulation compliant internal and external kill switches? Perhaps consider the oil cooler one of those things. If you have not invested in those things either then you're just driving your street car around on the track (at your own peril).

Do these Mustangs have oil coolers? Or perhaps do these Mustangs lack the computer programming to limit power when the oil gets too hot? Maybe they aren't doing any better than your 335i, they just aren't programmed to protect themselves. My buddy's Maxima seemed to do "just fine" too, until one day it wasn't.

If you want something track ready from the factory, go look at a 997 GT3/GT3R/GT3RS/Cup. More expensive than a street 135i? Hmmm....

 

[MCompact]

Ford admits that the 2011 GTs need an oil cooler for track use.

I think cooling issues are more prevalent with later model cars as bean counters increasingly trump the engineers. My 1988 M6 never had a hint of a cooling problem, and the desmogged S38 engine was producing 86bhp per liter- which is a bit more than the Coyote V8 cranks out.

 

[shortyb]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I'm at the BMW Performance Center and are happy to inform that despite flogging my test 135i seriously like my wife and I stole it, we cannot get past a tick over 250 on the oil temp meter... And it drops QUICK! 85F ambient.

Are you still at the PC? If so, I'm just around the corner. You ought to drop by.