changing your oil too often will harm your engine

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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
... That is, no "new" metal is being introduced into the sump, just stuff that was sequestered. ..but whatever the origin, I can't see it having any origin that could justify the term "wear".
My understanding of surface competition between Ep (typ zddp) and say, a calcium sulfonate would point to the possibilty of more wear in a highly stressesd engine when the relative ratio of detergent to EP is high, as when the oil is virgin. Is not this the reasoning used in porpotioning Ep to detergent in race oil and /or break-in oils? see Joe Gibbs.



If that's the case than it should occur only in highly stressed engines and not across enough units to produce a significant blip on the statistical radar.

...or so I would reason. This concept was promoted in some PR/propaganda campaign that (iirc) Ford put forth. It showed an sharp upramp @ 2k in metals. The implication being that the more often one transitioned through the 2k mark, the more metal ejecta one would experience. Longer drains, let's say the specified 5k, would cut this event almost in half.

The reader was left to speculate that they could cut their wear in half by doing longer drains (if they bought into it that far, why not the whole deal?).
 
All of this techno-babble makes us simple minded folk's brain hurt.
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I think there's way more evidence supporting the short OCI's than long intervals.

Maybe the oil industry has promoted short OCI's, and the environmental zealots are trying to change that. Who knows? I'll stick with 3,000 mi. OCI until proven otherwise.
 
I have zero consumption after an OC. If anything, my experience is that consumption increases further into the OC.
 
i agree, 3k oil changes will not help engine as much as 6k according to the ford conoco study
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I have zero consumption after an OC. If anything, my experience is that consumption increases further into the OC.


I've noticed that too over the years. Typically if I had a vehicle that used oil, it would always use oil toward the end of the OCI.
 
That points to some fatigued component in the oil. My 3.0 Mitsubishi would consume no oil until 3k. By the OEM recommended drain, it was down an quart and had already had one quart of make up. 5000 miles. That was pretty much from new. 90's oils
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Due to high detergent action and surface competition fresh oil will show much higher wear for the first 1000km on a hard driven engine. Does not anyone here understand detergent v. ep/aw/fm?!


ARCOgraphite, put me in the newbie camp, I've seen you referring to surface competition in several threads, but don't really understand.

I thought the oil formulator balanced the amounts of ep/aw for the oil's detergents (thus high-detergent diesel oils have higher ep/aw levels), and that both detergents and ep/aw molecules degrade over the OCI (even if the constituent elements are still present and show up in a spectrographic analysis).

Can you point me at any resources online to read, and gain further insight?
 
Originally Posted By: Oldwolf
None of this talk applies to diesel engines, does it?


It does apply.

In our application (engines meant to last > 1,000,000 miles / 25,000 hours), in the end though, any increased wear from changing the oil more often is negligible and might as well be zero.
 
i will admit to being one of those quoting the conoco and ford studies (there are two different ones, but there was a ford guy co-authoring the SAE paper). i am in the process of obtaining the papers to read them now, and will let you know what i come up with.
 
Originally Posted By: cheetahdriver
i will admit to being one of those quoting the conoco and ford studies (there are two different ones, but there was a ford guy co-authoring the SAE paper). i am in the process of obtaining the papers to read them now, and will let you know what i come up with.


I've read it; it's a good informational read.

Bottom line is that changing oil very frequently will cause a bit more wear. But I don't think that the 3k mile OCI is the real issue.

The rise is wear is basically insignificant. Too frequent OCIs result in wasted oil ($$$); that is the main propblem. It bogus to think you'd "prematurly" wear out the engine with ultra frequent OCIs. I'm sure that the study is valid (the SAE/Ford paper), but it's also a bit older now as well.
 
I personally don't think changing you oil often is going to hurt anything. There are a lot of people who change their oil at 3000 miles that make it to 2oo or 300k miles. Personally I am an advocate for extended oil change intervals. I am seriously considered putting Redline in my car and never changing it again, just doing filter changes and top off every 10k miles or so. I change my oil every 10 - 15k currently and have no sludge whatsoever and have no mechanical issues. I have a friend who changes his oil on his Toyota every 25k (since new) and has 180k miles on his car with no sludge or mechanical problems whatsoever.
 
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I have a friend who changes his oil on his Toyota every 25k (since new) and has 180k miles on his car with no sludge or mechanical problems whatsoever.


Which Toyota does he have and what oil does he run?
 
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
He runs Redline and I think it is a 2005 Toyota pickup. He changes his filter and tops off every 7500 mi or so.


See if you can get him to do a UOA sometime, that would be interesting to see!
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Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
He runs Redline and I think it is a 2005 Toyota pickup. He changes his filter and tops off every 7500 mi or so.


See if you can get him to do a UOA sometime, that would be interesting to see!
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Agreed!
 
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