Difference between Kohler Command and Courage...

[JTK]

I did some comparing between the Command and Courage service manuals and found some interesting differences between the two V-twins. Obviously they have cosmetic differences between the blower housings, shrouding and air cleaner assemblies. #1 would be the Courage twins don't have hydraulic lash adjusters (Chevy small block lifters) like the Commands do. The Courage series uses simple lock-nut lash adjusters that would require periodic adjustment and flat tappets. That's the same setup that many high end OHVs have used for years. #2 the Courage V-twin blocks look a tad lighter in construction than the Command. Smoother, less ribs and possibly gusseting. #3 the intake manifold and crank case breather assembly are different and look lesser grade on the Courage. Not to say the Courage twin is a bad engine, they probably will still outlast the equipment they're bolted to. FWIW, what sparked my interest is I'm going from a Command 20 equipped Cub 2544 to a Courage 20 equipped Z-Force 44. Just thought I'd share.

Joel

 

[Brett Miller]

Sometimes I wish my 16hp Command had solid lifters. The last 3 years, it tapped like crazy after bringing out of storage. After a good warmup it stopped, but it sure sounds bad! I suspect the Courage will be a fine engine with reasonable maintenance.

 

[JTK]

That's true Brett. My Kohler Command 20 was always tappy sounding at idle and always idled like a Harley; Ratta..tatta..tatta. But at max governed speed was smooth as butter. Something else that shocked me about the Kohler Courage V-twins. Right out of the 2010 Cub Cadet Z-Force manual, 15w40 is recommended for the engine!

Joel

 

[jstutz]

Joel, congrats on your new machine. So you sent the old 2544 down the road. I think i would have a hard time replacing mine, i have grown to really like it, except the tap tap of the engine at lower speeds. Another thing that is odd too me about there recommendations is that they called out Rimula. It looks like they are recommending everything shell.

 

[JTK]

Seems like a first for an OEM to recommend a non-OEM lubricant. Yep, my father-in-law will be getting the 2544. He really needs it with his terrain.

Joel

 

[JTK]

Oh.. and Rimula is a Shell Europe product. The European Rotella perhaps? I have seen a post or two where Rimula can be found on the shelves of OTR truck shops, but I'll stick with my tried and true Rotella 15w40. Rimula >>> http://www.shell.com/home/content/products_services/on_the_road/oils/rimula/shell_rimula.html

Joel

 

[doitmyself]

Those Rimula recommendations raised some red flags for me too.

If you go to the Kohler site here: http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productMatrix.htm ,you only find the traditional 10w30 recommendation.

The 15w40 recommendation is interesting, indeed.

 

[JTK]

The only thing I can figure it it's not uncommon for OEMs to spec something different from the actual engine's manufacturer that's used on the equipment. For instance the Case manual for my old 1979 model year Case 220 garden tractor specs 20w40 for HD use in the 10hp Kohler-K. Kohler specs only SAE30 for the K-series. I'm thinking Cub Cadet is doing the same thing with their spec.

Joel

 

[RUSHCO]

You are right in what you listed as the differences. They did lighten up all components, but it still is a pretty good engine. They have resolved the early flywheel and compression release issues. I would put it better than the mower it is sitting on. The new cubs aren't the same as the old ones.

 

[boraticus]

All residential grade OPE is being built far less robust than those built fifteen years ago. If manufacturers want to sell their stuff in the box stores, they have to make the retailer's price point. We can't expect top quality OPE products for the prices being charged at places like Walmart, Home Depot, Chinadian Tire, Zellers etc.

There's a reason the prices are that low. It's cheaply built, throw away stuff. It's built that way to make the price more appealing to the masses, a basic box store strategy. When it breaks in five years or less, the customer will be back to buy more of the same.

The old saying holds true: "You get what you pay for."

Most participants in forums such as this are not mainstream, box store type purchasers, unless relatively new to OPE in general. Seasoned participants with lots of knowledge and experience know very well that you're not going to get a Lexus for the price of a Lada. We tend to select and treat our OPE like a good set of golf clubs or our favourite expensive fishing tackle. From years of experience, we've learned what's good and what's not, buy quality stuff and keep it well maintained. Sure, some are a little over the top in the maintenance end of it some times, but if that's what it takes to achieve their comfort levels, so be it.

I buy good stuff. Probably not the very best, but usually the best value when it comes to quality vs cost. My OPE does a LOT of work for me. The least I can do it a bit of work for it.

Buy the best quality you can afford and take care of your equipment. If you can find older OPE in very good condition, snap it up! Chances are, you'll be getting very good quality for less than box store prices!

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: RUSHCO
You are right in what you listed as the differences. They did lighten up all components, but it still is a pretty good engine. They have resolved the early flywheel and compression release issues. I would put it better than the mower it is sitting on. The new cubs aren't the same as the old ones.


Thats for sure,but I have no complaints so far with my LT-1046

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: RUSHCO
I would put it better than the mower it is sitting on. The new cubs aren't the same as the old ones.


That's true, but for ~$4K, I wouldn't expect it to be like a 1970's Cub Cadet. Back in the day a Cub garden tractor(any HD GT for that matter) would set you back the equivalent of ~$13K in today's dollars. Times changed, many other less expensive options became available and the market set the standard so to speak. Very few people are willing to spend $13K on a JD X700, a high end Simplicity or an Ingersoll GT when you can step up to a compact util. tractor with a loader, diesel and 4x4 for the same price.

Joel

 

[boraticus]

I have a buddy who shelled out big bucks ($25000.00 or so) for a JD Yard tractor with diesel engine, 4 wheel/drive and 4 wheel steering, hydraulics etc. for the snow thrower attachment. Nice machine but no air in the summer and no heat in the winter. If that wasn't enough, he realized that he had to get a walk behind mower because he couldn't cut areas that were previously easily accessible with hold old Honda rider. So, rather than buying an inexpensive mower to do five minutes of work once a week, he drops a grand for a fancy Toro. It's not like this guy is made out of money either. He's basically a payday to payday guy.

I recall dropping by his place on a nice warm day while riding one of my motorcycles. He has a motorcycle license and enjoys riding but hasn't owned a bike in years. So, he asks me if he could take my bike out for a quick spin just to see how it feels to ride again. He puts on my helmet, jumps on the bike and is gone for fifteen to twenty minutes while I sit on his deck with his wife having a lemonade. She tells me how much her husband misses motorcycling etc. blah, blah, blah....

He comes back all smiles and wide eyed. "That was great! Sure wish I had a bike again." I said "Get one." "With what?" he says. So I told him, "You see that JD sitting there? How many times a week do you use it?" "Once a week to cut grass." I said "Same as me and our lawns are close to the same size. The difference is that I cut my grass with a $3000.00 lawn tractor and throw snow in the winter with a $1500.00 snow thrower. The other twenty grand that I didn't spend on a JD went toward buying motorcycles!"

Meanwhile, his wife who's listening to the conversation and is giving him the evil eye, pipes up a says "I told you we didn't need to spend that much for a yard tractor!" His reply was "Yeah, maybe so but I love my John Deere."

It's a dandy tractor. That's for sure but in his case, he went way over the top for the yard he has. He could have bought a machine for half the price and it still would have been underutilized. In addition, he was also blinded by the Green/Yellow syndrome. If I were spending that kind of money, it would have been on an equivalent Kubota with a hard cabin that has both air conditioning and heat.

To each his own I guess.