Best Fluid/Flush for 94 Buick 4T60E??

[Kaboomba]

Does anyone have advice on the best fluid for the 4T60E in my 94 Park Avenue? The summer before last I had a pan/filter+flush job done, with Scheaffer synthetic ATF added. I run LubeGard Black in it, too, and have a aux cooler. I now have approximately 35K on the fluid.

Dex III vs. Dex VI?? I have been eying the Amsoil Torque-Drive/Castrol TranSynd. I am happy with the Scheaffer, but shifts could be smoother IMO.

Thoughts?

 

[Donald]

If you want to go with Amsoil, look up on their website for your exact make/model. Any DEX VI should be fine. DEX III is no longer licensed so you would not know what you are getting.

I am very happy with Amsoil Universal ATF in Camry and Jeep.

 

[pbm]

I think you should be running Lubegard red rather than black. The LG black is for converting Dex to HFM fluids such as Honda Z-1 etc...Maybe that's why its not as smooth as you like.
I have Mobil 1 ATF (older version) and LG red in my Buick 4T65E and it's as smooth as butter.

PS: I would have no problem running the Schaeffers out to 50K or next summer if you are not towing. This is especially true with LG and an aux. cooler. If the fluid is still nice and red and doesn't smell burned I'd wait till next May or June (before the summer heat.) That's just my opinion.

 

[Kaboomba]

pbm, you may be right about the LG Black.

I am confused about Dex VI vs Dex III. Which are you using? What year is your 4T65E?

Donald: I am confused: What do you mean by Dex III is no longer licenced? Not used in any new vehicles?

I have heard Dex VI is lower viscosity than Dex III--wouldn't this mean that the balance of power transmission through the TCC and TC would scew more to the TCC while using Dex VI? Is my '94 4T60E TCC designed to handle this difference? The TCC works pretty hard as it is.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

In the past I have had great luck with supertech Dex/Merc(purchased in Gallons) and one bottle of Lubegard RED in these transmissions. Just recently I decided to start using ST Dexron VI and am even more happy with this.

As Donald mentioned, Amsoil is a great ATF. Redline also makes two great atfs, D4 and D6 which woulf fit the bill as well. It really comes down to how much you want to spend. I would get the lubegard black out of there as that is the wrong type for your trans.

Pick a fluid, drop the pan(if you want or mileage dictates, change the filter)and perform a cooler line exchange to get all of that old fluid out. I think that once you move aways from the lubegard BLACK your tranmission will smooth right out.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Dexron VI is a newer GM fluid that is shear stable and has a viscosity of around 6.0 . WHen a regular old spec Dex III fluid was used for lets say 30K it would shear down from around 7.5 to 6.0 or lower viscosity wise.

The reason for the back spec on your trans is that the Dex VI is a lower viscosity, but it meets the requirement as the DexIII will always shear quite a bit, making the viscosities close.

Licensing on the old Dex III atf expired when GM went to Dexron VI Was my understanding. So oil companies can no longer call it DEXRON III. Most state DEX/MERC or something to that effect.

Dex VI would work very well in your 4T65E. I have seen improvements in shifting and smoothness when going to this fluid in the 65's. The trick is to do the full fluid exchange. If you just drain and fill you will not see the full benefit of the new fluid.

 

[Kaboomba]

So far it looks as though I should find a good syn Dex VI, LG Red, and do a pan-off+filter+flush. AMS, RL, M1--anybody have a good case for any one of these?

I am not concerned about the price, since I'll do the work myself and it is always much cheaper to get an extra 50K out of a transmission than to repair a dead one or replace the car. My goal is for everything to wear out at exactly the same time, far, far in the future.

What's the best filter for this old beast? I think I got a Wix last time, and I thought the filter element looked good.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

If you go with any premium syn atf there is no need for the Lubegard. For the expensive atf, I would go with either Redline or amsoil. I have had very good luck with Redline in several GM chassis. One suburban with over 200K on RL D4 ATF.

I always get my transmission filters at Napa. They come with a good rubber type gasket as well. Really it doesnt matter much where you get your filter as it is merely a screen and most of the offerings out there are pretty close these days. The major difference is that some come with a pathetic cork gasket.

I think your car sounds like a perfect candidate for a Magnefine inline filter. That combined with you existing aux cooler and new synthetic atf should give you the best shot at longevity.

 

[VK56VD]

Not sure about the Buick, but I know on some transmissions, Dealer OEM is the best way to go.

Some aftermarket filters don't provide the same flow the transmissions require.

 

[Donald]

Add a filter like a Magnefine, if you have lots of room then a remote filter mount with a screw on filter. The Magnefine is $20 for about 20-30K miles. Once you have a filter like a Magnefine I think you can forget about changing the transmissions internal filter.

Amsoil is $8-$10 a QT but good for 50K severe and 100K non severe. If you fill your transmission with Amsoil and add a Magnefine will you ever have to service it again?

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Personally I have never run into this and I have worked on quite a few cars in my life. Not calling you a liar by any stretch, there very well may be filters/screens out there that are not optimal in a certain applications and this in turn might cause a problem. With NAPA filter kits, they are so close to GM that you will never have an issue. And I have used both on the 4T60/65E without issue.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
...Just recently I decided to start using ST Dexron VI and am even more happy with this...



I just flushed my 4T65 with ST Dex-VI and am very pleased with the results. Shifts are butter-smooth most of the time. This a very marked difference from the shifting with the ST Dex/Merc in there before. The ST Dex-VI is by far the superior fluid.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
pbm, you may be right about the LG Black.

I am confused about Dex VI vs Dex III. Which are you using? What year is your 4T65E?

Donald: I am confused: What do you mean by Dex III is no longer licenced? Not used in any new vehicles?

I have heard Dex VI is lower viscosity than Dex III--wouldn't this mean that the balance of power transmission through the TCC and TC would scew more to the TCC while using Dex VI? Is my '94 4T60E TCC designed to handle this difference? The TCC works pretty hard as it is.




Sorry KB, I didn't get back to the computer till this morning.
My 4T65E is in my 2002 Century. I am using the older version of Mobil 1 which was Dex III compatible (I don't even think Dex VI was out when I bought it). I changed my FF at 36K (dropped the pan and put in a new filter and a couple of extra magnets) and it still looked cherry red. I had only purchased 5 qts. of M1 and was surprised that nearly 8 qts. came out. I couldn't get additional M1 at the time so I added 2.XX qts. of ST Dex III and a bottle of LG red. I went 60K (and 4 years) to 96K on the Mobil 1, ST and LG concoction and my tranny shifted flawlessly. At 96K I dropped the pan, changed the filter and installed 100% Mobil 1 ATF along with a bottle of LG red. I used the same older version of M1 (not the newer version which claims to be a 'universal' fluid). I plan on running this fill 60 or 70K. I believe the 4T65E is a good unit (unlike the BAXA in my wifes Honda) and since I don't tow anything I am comfortable going 60 or 70K on a good synthetic fluid. I also believe LG is an excellent product and I have it in the Honda and Toyota too.
LG black is a converter while the red just improves the heat fighting capability of your fluid without changing its frictional properties.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I had a 4T60E in a '94 Grand Prix that I owned from 1995 to 2007 and it had 212k miles on it when I gave it away. I never had any trans issues at all. I dropped the pan, changed the filter and topped it off every 30k miles with regular Dex III. The first time the dealer did it, the rest of the time I did it myself with no particular brand of filter or oil. I think I used AC Delco Dex III, Valvoline Dex III, Castrol Dex III, etc. Fresh fluid is the most important.

My current Grand Prix has seen similar treatment but it has had either Wix or GM filters. It currently has 116k miles on it.

You can see my GP's history here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1228387

At the time of the UOA I flushed it with Dex VI. Notice how the Dex III Mobil 1 I had been using had sheared down to 5.72? That is thinner than Dex VI so changing to Dex VI is not a big deal. I've changed over both my current cars to Dex VI with no issues.

As you can see in the UOA for my GP's 4T65E wear looked good. I've never used any additives and I don't think you need to. What is the point of adding the Lube Guard? I personally think it is a waste of money. Use a good fluid and you don't need anything else. I'd use a Dex VI, brand is not important since they are all so similar.

 

[sciphi]

Agreed. There's a link floating around of what is likely ST Dex-VI (or at least Warren Dex-VI) vs. Valvoline Dex-VI. The specs are very, very close.

I'm running ST Dex-VI right now. The car loves it. Shifts are smooth, and there aren't any strange noises.

 

[Kaboomba]

It sounds like a good syn Dex VI doesn't need any LG, so I'll skip that. I have issues about purchasing anything that is a Wal-mart brand (which SuperTech is, correct?), so I'll lean toward M1 or Valvoline, possibly Amsoil.

The Park Avenue is 3800 lbs empty, but it still has the 4T60E, so I think syns and regular (30-45K) changes are justified. Thoughts? Last change was at 42K, currently 79K on car.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

You are wise to skip the LG on a syn fluid. If you dont like wally world thats cool, but keep in mind that Dexron VI spec is pretty tight. There will not be very much if any difference between these fluids, perfromance wise. Since you are considering Amsoil(ATL I assume) I would also recommend Redline D6. I have had great luck with it where Dexron VI is spec'd.

If you want a licensed fluid that meets this spec valvoline, mobil and ST are great choices. Mobil 1 does not satisfy Dexron VI. I like to exchange ATF at 30K unless I am running bypass filtration. These cars, like most benefit from a simple upgrade in filtration, usually in the form of a magnefine. Keep in mind they come with close to nothing (rock catcher in the pan) so anything is a vast improvement here. The Dex VI can go much longer than 30K, I'm just anal about transmission service.

 

[sciphi]

The 4T60 and 4T65 have a felt filter that's pretty thick and replaceable. It's not good for small stuff. It will stop the larger particles.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Yeah thanks and so do pretty much all other GM transmissions. They do not filter below about 100 microns in most cases and thats pretty substantial. An auxillary filter is a wise addition here. I have been inside quite a few 4T's. I am going to assume you are commenting on my "rock catcher" statement. This is often used to describe these felt filters or mesh type filters as both are merely "strainers" and not "filters" really.

 

[Kaboomba]

So the Magnefine--does it have a magnet and filter media, or just magnet? I assume this would be installed upstream of the cooler?

You are piqueing my interest with the ST and D6--is "D6" the Redline Dex VI equivalent?

My goal is to see how many 3's (6?) I can put on the OD...without rebuilding anything...