1997 Camry 5SFE with valve cover off

[saberz]

They are very good cars, you need to realize that the person who did that to the motor didn't do a proper oil change on time and just let it run. To many factors come into play but more than likely its bulk dino oil(which isn't bad) being put through extreme service and letting it run 3700 miles over what might be recommended by the service manual(usually 5k). Thats neglect! Gotta love that last image, and it gives a really good point for everyone.

Case in point

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I'm surprised by all the replies saying that engine looks "good."

Now don't get me wrong- its not *BAD* either, and it should easily go many more miles with nothing except the same oil diet its been getting. But I'd call it "OK" or "average," not "good." Its pretty typical of engines I used to see run on good dino oil back in the 70s and 80s. But when I've opened 200k-mile class engines that have been run on modern synthetics (my wife's former 93 Chrysler 3.5 at 200k miles on M1, for example- I sure wish I'd had a camera handy when I did that job a few years ago) I have gotten accustomed to seeing *NO* yellow or brown at all, just metal that looks like its fresh off the milling machine. The absence of yellow varnish may not lengthen the life of the engine much or any, but it is a key difference between synthetics and non-synthetics and why I personally think that its false economy to look for bargain oil all the time.

JMO.




I agree. All my years using M1 I,ve never seen varnish or sludge.
My preasant Grand Marquis has none of that at 210,000 miles.

 

[saberz]

Might be the engine, my Impala was the 3.8L, friends Pontiac Grand Prix GTP on a Mobil 1 diet much like my Impala has the same light brown/tan varnish, again its not a bad thing. Could be how hot the engine is running and meant to run.

 

[Max_Wander]

This our 5SFE from VCG job #1... 9mths ago
320,000km / 200,000m

(sorry about the pink, it's the camera's way of displaying infrared - the IR filter was removed from the CCD at the time)

The buildup and cleaning of the varnish has been entirely autonomous; built up by older, cheaper GrIII's, cleaned by one run of M1 and multiple runs of Safety-Kleen Syn (and a good beating

).

 

[Mark888]

No Toyota's for me. I thought they were best thing since sliced bread.[/quote]
They are if you change the oil, preferably with a synthetic.

 

[saberz]

Just needs a little TLC and its back to new!

I think I should goto a junkyard and buy the cheapest motor and sludge the [censored] out of it and have a field day dipping it into carb cleaner over and over!

 

[KrisZ]

I am not sure why everybody calls this engine "sludge prone", this is a 4 cylinder model and is not prone to sludge, the V6 is.

The amount of varnish is a little excessive (obviously some OCI were neglected), but nothing alarming is happening.

Stop scaring the OP that he just bought the sludge monster that may lead him to run solvents or start tearing into the engine.

I would keep on top of the OCI's and keep an eye on the oil level. The car has over 170k miles, why start throwing money at it? So you have a sparkling clean engine under the cover? If it runs fine, let it be.

 

[crinkles]

KrisZ, the 4 cylinder which powered the camry before the 2AZ-FE came in was a sludge monster. I am trying to find some proof on the net but I can't seem to find a list of the engines.

http://www.epowerproducts.com/toyota-settle-slugde-lawsuit/

 

[saberz]

We all for the most part have re-assured him that nothing bad is going on with that engine and just give it some nice oil and decent OCI's.

We just continued the conversation on what a sludge motor looks like and how it happens. This is some interesting and neat stuff IMHO.

 

[KrisZ]

There may have been a few cases where the I4 engine was really neglected and sludged, I guess thats why it was included in the lawsuit. However all the cases of sludge that I heard of were for the 3.0 V6 engine.

I also tried googling the 2.2 sludge but I can't find any reports other than the sludge lawsuit engine list.

I found an interesting Amsoil oil sludge TSB, on the second page it has a list of manufacturers and engine types that are sludge prone (according to Amsoil).
Note that the V6 engine has 1,577,000 units that are potentially affected and the 2.2 4 cyl has 1,757,000 units. So clearly the 4 cyl model sold more and if it was affected by sludge the same as the V6 model you would certainly be able to find some reports, yet all I could find were references to the V6 engine. That tells me that the engine is not a "sludge monster".
Also, quickly browsing through Toyota Nation forums, the general consensus there is that the 2.2 engine is very reliable and can take some punishment.

Anyaway, just because the engine was included in the lawsuit, doesn't make it a sludge monster, I guess that's what I'm trying to say here.

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/pdf/TSB-engine-sludge-issues.pdf

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
No Toyota's for me. I thought they were best thing since sliced bread.

They are if you change the oil, preferably with a synthetic.[/quote] Let me correct the last statement.

Just change the oil (no need for syn) and 99% of the Toyota's go down the road with ease.

Just like most other brands.

 

[Eddie]

I think I would do an Auto RX myself. Why not ask Frank at AutoRX for his opinion?

 

[PT1]

The Toyota engines I have had all get a steady diet of PP (or other syn)with 5k OCI's and a PCV valve cleaning every 20-30k. All clean as a whistle at 150k which is when I trade them in because they are still on the factory drive train & chassis.

All the engines will run way past the body on the car. You just have to pay attention to them and do normal maintenance. WHich many do not do.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
I think I would do an Auto RX myself. Why not ask Frank at AutoRX for his opinion?


+1 I would definitely do an ARX treatment on that engine. The cost is minimal, non-invasive, easy to do so why not?

 

[SMB]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I think I would do an Auto RX myself. Why not ask Frank at AutoRX for his opinion?


+1 I would definitely do an ARX treatment on that engine. The cost is minimal, non-invasive, easy to do so why not?



I started my 1st rinse cycle just a few days ago. I'll be doing a 2nd application after that.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
There may have been a few cases where the I4 engine was really neglected and sludged, I guess thats why it was included in the lawsuit. However all the cases of sludge that I heard of were for the 3.0 V6 engine.


Actually the only 2 people I know personally who had Toyota engines fail with sludge had the older I4.

Now I've known a guy who had the crank break on a 3.0 and take out the front 1/3 of the block with it, but it wasn't due to sludge- all the pieces he found were clean enough...

. In fact we have no idea whatsoever what caused it, it happened at only about 2700 RPM.

 

[lexus114]

maybe just a weak/faulty crankshaft.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: SMB
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I think I would do an Auto RX myself. Why not ask Frank at AutoRX for his opinion?


+1 I would definitely do an ARX treatment on that engine. The cost is minimal, non-invasive, easy to do so why not?



I started my 1st rinse cycle just a few days ago. I'll be doing a 2nd application after that.


Watch your oil filters because they will probably start filling up with gunk. Might be a good idea to get an extra supertech filter or two. Then go to PP and it will keep cleaning it up.

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: Anies
When you have this

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html

Then you have a sludge problem, roughly 8700 miles on dino, not sure how the guy drove but he put the motor in some extremely "severe" operation. It's important to note what the guy says in one of the pictures towards the bottom. If you take care of your car, it will look like what you see, the guy who brought it in did not. You on the other hand are in great condition and as others said your good for many more miles and years to come.

Use one of the recommended oils and do 5k OCI's with Pennzoil YB or a HM oil to help clean some of the other guys use. You'll be a happy camper.


i don't buy that 8,700 mile engine. check the rust on the front bank's exhaust out. that is an OLD engine.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

My mother lives in Fla and drives about 200 miles/ year. She has a 89 caddy 2 dr with continental kit with 60K on it - back when my father used to drive it about 5K a year. Car drives good, but its on its 2nd motor. I make a call and have the local garage (Rick Johnson's - good guys, go see Charlie) do an oil change maybe 2x a year. You'll find lots of low mileage, older cars down in SW Fl.