Oil for a 2005, Audi S4

The Critic · Nov 7, 2005

I'm posting for someone else.

The car is a 2005 Audi S4, and comes with free maintenance from the dealer at 10,000 mile service intervals, beginning with the first service at 5000. The sump capacity on this car is 11.3 quarts IIRC, so I don't think the oil should be severely stressed in this application. The owner's manual states to use a 502.00/503.01/505.00 engine oil, and the dealer plans on using the Castrol 5w-40.

Instead of alternating between a 5000 mile service interval with the dealer, Castrol 5w-40 and another oil, I was thinking about bringing my own Amsoil 5w-40 to the dealer and running it for the full 10,000 mile interval over the Castrol 5w-40 as the Amsoil is a better formulated product.

The Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 I think is also a good choice and may provide better fuel efficiency. Remember that the 503.01 VW spec is actually a 0w-30 oil with an HT/HS between 2.9 and 3.5, so I don't think the 0w-30 would be too thin. I'm going to let you folks tell me whether the 0w-30 is worth the $25 premium at each oil change.

Suggestions? Other oils?

TIA,
Michael

Dad2leia · Nov 7, 2005

I would say use the Amsoil 5w40 unless you get really cold this time of year in Sacramento, then maybe look into the Series 2000 0w30 for the winter/early spring, and if you mileage permits it, go to the 5w40 for the spring/summer/fall seasons.

The Critic · Nov 7, 2005

Not my car

, but the person's location doesn't have seriously cold winter weather.

You folks will have to tell me if the Series 2000, 0w-30 is worth the $25 extra at each oil change over the 5w-40, as I've seen excellent results with the 5w-40 in Ted's 225HP, Audi TT (BKLabs TBN of around 2.6 probably, OAI's was 5.1) with almost no shearing, as well as in another BITOGer's 03 VW 1.8T with no shearing a BK Labs TBN of 5.1 after 4500 miles.

EDIT: BTW, Sacramento doesn't get below 30F, ever.

Dad2leia · Nov 7, 2005

With those results, and given the milder climate, go with the 5w40 and use the difference to have him buy the beer for you for giving him the great advice.

crew219 · Nov 7, 2005

Personally, just buy some BC or alternate with regular 5w40 amsoil every 5k. Def use your free oil changes and IMO, two 5k changes with 502 is always better than one 10k change with 502.

Dave

The Critic · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

Personally, just buy some BC or alternate with regular 5w40 amsoil every 5k.

There is only one type of Amsoil 5w-40, and that is the Euro formula. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there more than one type of Castrol 5w-40 Syntec?

quote:

Def use your free oil changes and IMO, two 5k changes with 502 is always better than one 10k change with 502.

BTW, the Amsoil 5w-40 meets 503.00 and 505.00 as well, so it is much better than a 502.00 oil. If the Amsoil is capable of a 10K drain, I don't see the point of dumping it at 5K, especially when this car takes >11 quarts per oil change.

EDIT: Perhaps I could do one 10K run with the dealer Castrol 5w-40 and sample it, and do another run of Amsoil 5w-40 and sample it to compare results.

Pushslice · Nov 7, 2005

If it were my S4, after the 5K oil change I'd run it up to around 13-14K and take a UOA. If it looks good, then stick with the free oil changes every 10K; Castrol's a good oil and good 5W40s these days tend to do well with long term shearing.
VAG has had enough recent experience w/ oil issues that we should expect them to be conservative w/r/to warranty issues...so if they're comfortable with 10K miles on the 4.2L V8, I'll give them benefit of the doubt.

-push

crew219 · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

There is only one type of Amsoil 5w-40, and that is the Euro formula. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there more than one type of Castrol 5w-40 Syntec?

BTW, the Amsoil 5w-40 meets 503.00 and 505.00 as well, so it is much better than a 502.00 oil. If the Amsoil is capable of a 10K drain, I don't see the point of dumping it at 5K, especially when this car takes >11 quarts per oil change.

EDIT: Perhaps I could do one 10K run with the dealer Castrol 5w-40 and sample it, and do another run of Amsoil 5w-40 and sample it to compare results.

I'm going by a cost perspective. It can't be cheap to buy 12 quarts of amsoil. M1 0w40 also meets the 503 rating. BC carries both 502 and 505 ratings, just not the 503.

Dave

The Critic · Nov 7, 2005

Dave,
You're right. Now here's the question: How does M1 0w-40 perform in high-performance, turbocharged applications? M1 0w-40 has a tendency to shear down into a low-mid 30wt, and also tends to show high Fe and doesn't seem to be as resistant to fuel dilution or high solids.

moribundman · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

Remember that the 503.01 VW spec is actually a 0w-30 oil with an HT/HS between 2.9 and 3.5

That statement makes no sense and is also wrong in regard to HTHS: VW 503.01 mandates a minimum HTHS of 3.5. Various viscosity ranges are approved, not only 0W-30.

moribundman · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

M1 0w-40 has a tendency to shear down into a low-mid 30wt, and also tends to show high Fe and doesn't seem to be as resistant to fuel dilution or high solids.

Opinion creep in action. The quoted claim is also an incomplete comparison.

moribundman · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

How does M1 0w-40 perform in high-performance, turbocharged applications?

M1 0W-40 appears to work fine as factory fill in the Porsche Cayenne, the Mercedes AMG and the Aston Martin.

Dad2leia · Nov 7, 2005

And once again, the price creeps into the equation. Do you want the "best" that can be put into your specific engine, or do you want "everything for nothing"?

Sorry if this statement comes over as harsh, but I get tired of people asking opinions of a good, quality oil, botique or otherwise, then bulking about the price.

Stick with dino and 3-5K mile oil changes if your worried about the price tag, or buy a lesser vehicle and use the change for the better oils.

moribundman · Nov 7, 2005

I just found this itty-bitty piece of misinformation:

quote:

BTW, the Amsoil 5w-40 meets 503.00 and 505.00 as well, so it is much better than a 502.00 oil.

VW 503.00 is an obsolete low HTHS spec. VW 502.00 and VW 503.00 are mutually exclusive, just like VW 505.00 and VW 503.00 are mutually exlusive. VW 502.00, VW 505.00 and VW 503.01 are not mutually exclusive.

Also, about "better:"

VW 503.00 is an obsolete spec that was never applicable to any US import model Audi or VW.

- VW 503.00 (low HTHS spec) is not "better" than VW 502.00 (normal HTHS spec).
- VW 503.00 (gas engine spec) is not "better" than VW 505.00 (diesel engine spec). Those specs are like apples and oranges -- or rather they are specs for different applications!

VW and Audi have replaced VW 503.00 (low HTHS) with a new spec, VW 504/507 (normal HTHS).

[ November 07, 2005, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

crew219 · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

Dave,
You're right. Now here's the question: How does M1 0w-40 perform in high-performance, turbocharged applications? M1 0w-40 has a tendency to shear down into a low-mid 30wt, and also tends to show high Fe and doesn't seem to be as resistant to fuel dilution or high solids.

Honestly, I'm not an oil fanatic. I use GC, BC and 0w40 . . . all it comes down to is availability and cost. I had a 2000 V6 Passat and now have a 2006 Audi A3.

I personally believe that anything with a 502 rating is fairly comparable to everything else. Using a 5k OCI is not going to run the oil to its extremes and certainly not if I'm using doses of VSOT and LC with each 5k OCI.

I'm sticking with the dealer provided 10k OCIs and filling up on the non-provided 5ks with whatever 502 i can find avail and continuing the VSOT / LC. 503 is fairly irrelevant to me since I will not be doing a 10k OCI.

With M1, BC and GC being readily avail . . . I have little desire to spend $7-10 a quart on specialty oils such as Redline, Amsoil and Motul.

TBH, I might even just use 5w40 T&S every 5k since technically I'm not supposed to do an oil change. I guess it wouldn't matter since AoA won't be checking to make sure i used a 502 oil.

Just my .02.

Dave

The Critic · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

That statement makes no sense and is also wrong in regard to HTHS: VW 503.01 mandates a minimum HTHS of 3.5. Various viscosity ranges are approved, not only 0W-30.

You're right.

I was confusing it with the VW 503.00 spec, which has a HT/HS of 2.9-3.4. The 503.01 requires >3.5.

Thanks for the correction and I appreciate it, as I can be incorrect.

Also, I forgot that the S4 has a 5000 mile service interval NOT a 10K service interval.

moribundman · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

Thanks for the correction and I appreciate it, as I can be incorrect.

I'm waiting for the day someone follows well-meant advice and suffers the consequences. In the case of VW 503.01 and VW 503.00, a one-digit typo might cost someone his engine.

BlueWorld · Nov 7, 2005

How do you worry about $25 when talking about maintenance on a $50k vehicle?

I personally would only run Motul 8100 E-tech with a liter or two of Motul 300V LeMans thrown in for fun until the warranty and free maintenance were up.

Then I'd run 300V or Red Line.

Audi Junkie · Nov 7, 2005

Paging: John Browning

The Critic · Nov 7, 2005

quote:

I'm waiting for the day someone follows well-meant advice and suffers the consequences. In the case of VW 503.01 and VW 503.00, a one-digit typo might cost someone his engine.

For a 5K service interval, neither would make a difference. A 503.00 has a HT/HS of 2.9-3.4, and is a 0w-30. The only 503.00 rated oils that are avaliable in the US that I can think of are the Series 2000 0w-30, Series 3000 5w-30 HDD, and the AFL 5w-40. All of those oils are also 505.00 and 502.00 certified, and are safe to use in this engine. (As the manual specs 503.01/502.00/505.00)

quote:

I just found this itty-bitty piece of misinformation:

quote:BTW, the Amsoil 5w-40 meets 503.00 and 505.00 as well, so it is much better than a 502.00 oil.

VW 503.00 is an obsolete low HTHS spec. VW 502.00 and VW 503.00 are mutually exclusive, just like VW 505.00 and VW 503.00 are mutually exlusive. VW 502.00, VW 505.00 and VW 503.01 are not mutually exclusive.

Also, about "better:"

VW 503.00 is an obsolete spec that was never applicable to any US import model Audi or VW.

- VW 503.00 (low HTHS spec) is not "better" than VW 502.00 (normal HTHS spec).
- VW 503.00 (gas engine spec) is not "better" than VW 505.00 (diesel engine spec). Those specs are like apples and oranges -- or rather they are specs for different applications!

VW and Audi have replaced VW 503.00 (low HTHS) with a new spec, VW 504/507 (normal HTHS).

I see. However, I have a question for you: Isn't the 503.00 a spec for high-performance, apps in engines such as the S4 and TT? Also, isn't the 503.00 set for a flexible service schedule opposed to a 503.01 spec that is designed for a "set" service interval? In that case, isn't the 503.00 spec designed for a longer service interval?

[ November 08, 2005, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Michael Wan ]

Oil for a 2005, Audi S4

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