Oil for a 2005, Audi S4

[theguru]

2005 Audi S4.

Are these incredibly cheap in the USA? Not so here. Are we talking here $25-50 per year! I would put the best in I could. And that would probably not be the dealers bulk oil. Get the dealer to put the oil in for the owner after he verifies it meets their warranty requirements. No sweat.

 

[The Critic]

I'll be sticking with the dealer, Castrol 5w-40 at 5K drains.

For Mori: I found out the following about the 503.00/503.01 spec as well:

"VW 503.00
This is a relatively new oil specification for petrol engines with variable service intervals. It includes the AUDI S4, but not the RS4, or the TT and S3 with outputs of more than 180bhp.
Viscosity rating: SAE 0w-30

VW 503.01
A new oil specification specifically for the RS4, and the TT and S3 with outputs of more than 180bhp, Passat W8 and Phaeton W12.
Viscosity rating: 0w-30 "

http://the-corrado.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20267

The 503.00 was designed specifically for the S4, and the owner's manual said that 503.01 was acceptable.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

quote:

---

M1 0w-40 has a tendency to shear down into a low-mid 30wt, and also tends to show high Fe and doesn't seem to be as resistant to fuel dilution or high solids.

---

Opinion creep in action. The quoted claim is also an incomplete comparison.

---

For the high solids and fuel dilution, I'm referring back to this statement about M1 in general: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=012242#000015

As for the M1 0w-40 UOA, lets do a comparison between M1 0w-40 and Amsoil 5w-40. Here is the link to the M1 0w-40 UOA:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001311;p=1#000000

Here is the one to the Amsoil 5w-40 UOA:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001687;p=1#000000

Note: The user had two usernames, but thru his original post, it can be confirmed that it was the same person.

 

[moribundman]

Michael, without quoting all points over and over:

Fact: Not a single US import Audi or VW specs VW 503.00 oil.

If you want to know if VW 503.00 or VW 503.01 in the same application has the same or different OCI, you will have to research that on your own. Not sure if you can find out, because a FLEXIBLE service display is used with LongLife Service, and that is, to my best knowledge, not available in the US.

An oil that allows for a longer OCI is not necessarily better. It is optimized for the long drain interval, but that doesn't make it better. In fact, LL oils have led to an increasing number of prematurely worn engines in Europe, which is the reason why VW and Audi have introduced new oil specs that replace the low HTHS specs. During the past years, many European drivers passed on the LL oils and went with the shorter OCI and regular oils instead. Go to http:motortalk.de and talk to Euro drivers and their experiences with LL oils. Find out first-hand why so many people choose the regular, scheduled service interval and A3-rated oils over LL Service and low-HTHS sauce.

As far as your quotes regarding VW 503.00 and VW 503.01 go, these are not "relatively new" specs anymore. Again, VW 503.00 is essentially gone! Check the current VW and Audi oil bulletins:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/moribundman/audi_oil.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/moribundman/vw_oil.jpg

quote:

---

The only 503.00 rated oils that are avaliable in the US that I can think of are the Series 2000 0w-30, Series 3000 5w-30 HDD, and the AFL 5w-40. All of those oils are also 505.00 and 502.00 certified, and are safe to use in this engine. (As the manual specs 503.01/502.00/505.00)

---

An oil that is rated VW 503.00 MUST NOT HAVE an HTHS 505/503.01-rated oil MUST HAVE an HTHS of =/>3.5. You can't have both in one. It is impossible.

Does AMSOIL really claim that their oil can meet a low and a regular HTHS spec in one oil? Pablo, please explain that one.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Fact: Not a single US import Audi or VW specs VW 503.00 oil.

---

Sure. But of the cars that spec a 503.00 oil, isn't the S4 one of them?

quote:

---

An oil that is rated VW 503.00 MUST NOT HAVE an HTHS 505/503.01-rated oil MUST HAVE an HTHS of =/>3.5. You can't have both in one. It is impossible.

Does AMSOIL really claim that their oil can meet a low and a regular HTHS spec in one oil? Pablo, please explain that one. [Razz]

---

You mean any oil with a HT/HS >3.4 cannot be a 503.00 approved oil correct?

What is the disadvantage of having a 0w-30 that has a HT/HS of >3.5? Isn't the higher the HT/HS is, the better?

As for why Amsoil did what it did, I won't go there. That's not my area, I'm not an Amsoil dealer. I'll be more than willing to e-mail Amsoil Tech Services, however.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

---

For the high solids and fuel dilution, I'm referring back to this statement about M1 in general: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=012242#000015

---

And that applies only to M1? As Terry said:

quote:

---

THINGS like fuel, chems, dirt getting in between the fluid and EP layers affect wear, NOT simple vis reasons.

Terry

---

quote:

---

As for the M1 0w-40 UOA, lets do a comparison between M1 0w-40 and Amsoil 5w-40. Here is the link to the M1 0w-40 UOA:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001311;p=1#000000

Here is the one to the Amsoil 5w-40 UOA:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001687;p=1#000000

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb...ic;f=3;t=001687;p=1#000000<hr /></blockquote>

Aluminum 3 / 4 / 3
Chromium 0/ 1 / 0
Iron 9 / 17 / 15
Copper 6 / 6 / 6
Lead 1 / 1 / 0
Tin 0 / 0 / 0

Uh-huh. Looks like M1 showed the least lead, if you believe that these numbers represent actual "wear" numbers (down to 1 ppm). The lab also said the Amsoil thickened. You decide to base your whole theory of M1 0W-40 shearing and performing poorly in terms of solids and fuel dilution on THAT and the other quoted case? That's preposterous. Keep in mind that I did not like M1 0W-40 one bit in my engine, so I'm not speaking in favor of this oil due to some agenda. I simply think that the badmouthing of M1 0W-40 that has been and keeps happening is unjustified and based on mindless repetition of examples that don't even amount to anything resembling circumstantial evidence that might indicate that M1 0W-40 isn't a super oil in the proper application. I would expect someone of your age group to be more critical of predigested information.
[/QUOTE]

 

[The Critic]

No, Terry said the following: "Retail available M1 of ANY weight does not do well in fuel dilute and abrasion(chem or dirt) ingress issues. Add high insolubles or CCV deposits or blowby in excess and it really sucks. Look at the low flash readings on M1 to verify."

Second, the EOT viscosity was 78.4, and the baseline is 77.7. As Tooslick said, that could simply be due to the accuracy of the ASTM test.

I was never basing the less than stellar M1 0w-40 performance on just this one UOA....there have been MANY UOAs that M1 0w-40 has had shearing issues in. Otherwise, why has Tooslick been so critical about it?

 

[moribundman]

quote:

---

But of the cars that spec a 503.00 oil, isn't the S4 one of them?

---

Only if the vehicle is equipped for LL service.

quote:

---

You mean any oil with a HT/HS >3.4 cannot be a 503.00 approved oil correct?

---

Not "any" -- none. No oil can meet a low and a regular HTHS spec. That's why VW came up with VW 504/507, which has an HTHS of 3.5, which is near borderline low HTHS.

quote:

---

As for why Amsoil did what it did, I won't go there. That's not my area, I'm not an Amsoil dealer. I'll be more than willing to e-mail Amsoil Tech Services, however.

---

Yeah, you just pulled those AMSOIL approvals from somewhere... According to the AMSOIL site, AFL 5W-40 meets VW 501.01, 502.00, 505.00. No mention of VW 503.00 or VW 503.01, for that matter.

quote:

---

What is the disadvantage of having a 0w-30 that has a HT/HS of >3.5? Isn't the higher the HT/HS is, the better?

---

I never said having a 0W-30 that had a regular or higher HTHS was disadvantageous.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

---

No, Terry said the following: "Retail available M1 of ANY weight does not do well in fuel dilute and abrasion(chem or dirt) ingress issues. Add high insolubles or CCV deposits or blowby in excess and it really sucks. Look at the low flash readings on M1 to verify."

---

I didn't hear Terry say that Mobil retail oils did worse than other retail brands with fuel dilution et al. Did you?

quote:

---

the EOT viscosity was 78.4, and the baseline is 77.7. As Tooslick said, that could simply be due to the accuracy of the ASTM test.

---

The test is accurate when it's bad for one product and inaccurate when it's good for another? That's ingenious!

quote:

---

I was never basing the less than stellar M1 0w-40 performance on just this one UOA....there have been MANY UOAs that M1 0w-40 has had shearing issues in. Otherwise, why has Tooslick been so critical about it?

---

Where are those "MANY" UOAs? And why do you let TooSlick think for you?

 

[The Critic]

OK. So you're talking strictly about shearing in M1 0w-40 apps, correct?
I've got better things to do than to look up all of the M1 0w-40 UOAs for you. Here are some for you to start with:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002673#000001
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002527#000006

 

[moribundman]

Michael, you are the one making unsubstantiated claims. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to back your claims with appropriate and considerable data that support such claims. Otherwise your claims are nothing but opinion-based and lack merit and credibility. I have no problem with you saying that you believe one thing or another, but I do have a problem with opinion being presented as fact.

Michael Wan, I sincerely hope you will make it your personal crusade to inform Porsche, MB AMG and Aston Martin and their many satisfied customers that their oil choice for their high-powered turbo-charged engines is a less-than-top choice, at least based on your professional expertise and interpretation of some resarched UOAs, and based on the arbitrary findings of other people.

'Nuff said.

 

[crew219]

Two men fighting over lube . . . . what is wrong about this picture?

I still say with a 12 quart sump and 5k oil changes you have nothing to worry about. Most S4s aren't even driven hard.

Dave

 

[The Critic]

"Yeah, you just pulled those AMSOIL approvals from somewhere... According to the AMSOIL site, AFL 5W-40 meets VW 501.01, 502.00, 505.00. No mention of VW 503.00 or VW 503.01, for that matter."
Not true. The Amsoil website isn't up-to-date, as for the as 5w-40 page goes. One example is that the formulation is now approved for use in 229.5 applications per Amsoil Tech Services, though its not listed on the website. I found the info about the VW 503.00 from here: http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/european_oil_5w_40.htm

I just sent an e-mail to Amsoil Tech Services about the 503.00 and the dual-certification.

"I sincerely hope you will make it your personal crusade to inform Porsche, MB AMG and Aston Martin and their many satisfied customers that their oil choice for their high-powered turbo-charged engines is a less-than-top choice, at least based on your professional expertise and interpretation of some resarched UOAs, and based on the arbitrary findings of other people."

I did say in my previous posts that M1 sheared, and may have caused high Fe in quite a few UOAs (as does M1 in general). However, never once did I relate the high Fe to wear, which has been subjected to much debate here on this forum. Based upon who you talk to, the high Fe may or may not be wear. I'm not commenting on that one, as I'm unsure of whether the Fe is actually wear.

I do agree with the major Euro MFG's that M1 0w-40 is a decent product and works quite well. However, if one is looking for a stable SAE40, then M1 0w-40 may not be the way to go and they ought to consider Amsoil 5w-40 or RL 5w-40.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

---

Not true. The Amsoil website isn't up-to-date, as for the as 5w-40 page goes.

---

"Not true"? My claim is 100% true in rgeard to the specs listed on the AMSOIL website. Their website isn't updated? How do you know? Where did you get that info of what specs AFL 5W-40 supposedly really meets? Cite you source, and it better not be a secondhand source. If not by the AMSOIL website, by what exactly do you want me to go? By your claims or by theirs? The burden of proof is not on me, it's on the one who makes unsubstantiated claims (That's you).

Yeah, get back when you get an explanation how one oil can meet low and regular HTHS oils specs. Don't forget to inform VW of that feat.

 

[JasonVW]

Quote:

"Also, I forgot that the S4 has a 5000 mile service interval NOT a 10K service interval."

I believe you are incorrect. The FIRST change interval is 5k then 10k after that. I am sure of it.