Toyota shill
Ford fanboy
If you only got 58k out of a 2AZFE, YOU, did something wrong(mr cert mechanic).
Ford fanboy
If you only got 58k out of a 2AZFE, YOU, did something wrong(mr cert mechanic).
Toyota Is Raising Service Intervals to 10k miles
- Thread starter The Critic
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OK..So far in this thread.. lots of Naysayers to 10k OCI's that I disagree with and a particularly out of the ordinary poster claiming extraordinarily short engine lifes with some questionable credibility.
I believe 30 oil changes at 10k mile OCI's will be quite doable in an enines lifetime with 0w20.
I believe 30 oil changes at 10k mile OCI's will be quite doable in an enines lifetime with 0w20.
^lol...
To add to the original post, I absolutely think the 0W20 syn can go the 10k intervals. Whether people follow the recommendations and/or like them is a different story entirely. But if someone were to switch back to dino and run more normal intervals (5k), I'm sure that would be fine as well.
If Toyota and other companies can successfully educate the public and their customers, then they wouldn't feel slighted at the higher cost oil due to longer service interval and less inconvenience of frequent servicing. Plus, they can still choose any mechanic / service shop of their choice and put any brand syn 0W20 of their choice (unlike the more difficult and restrictive VW 505 garbage like someone else mentioned for example).
Sorry, I can't resist
To add to ARCO's ramblings... My brother purchased his first car in 2005, a 2003 Toyota Matrix XR with the base 1.8L 1ZZFE. This is also our first Toyota product (and second Japanese car - previously all domestic, and still do have domestics in the family). While it is a good little car, and continues to serve him well, it is not without issues. It began burning a lot of oil at about 90,000 km. A compression test revealed that 3 cylinders had low compression, and 1 very low. Bad rings. Previous owner had all oil changes documented and were done on time. Engine ran great and burned very little oil when we bought it. It now burns 1 qt per 1000 miles, sometimes more, sometimes less. The recirc door servo broke, the blower motor resistor was toast, there are numerous creaks and rattles, the wiper motor is about to kick the bucket, his front wheel bearing is nearing the end of its life, the idler pulley needs replacement, the A/C is not very cold, his gas mileage is not always very good (sometimes great though), and I have an educated hunch that one of his transmission shaft bearings is worn (5 M/T).
I have no doubt that this car will continue to run just fine for years to come, despite its issues. No, Toyota is not perfect. They aren't the perfect cars that most people think they are. They're just like everything else out there! Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.
My mother's Chevy Venture that has had nothing but horribly short trips, towing trailers, loading up with heavy junk, and being used and abused daily, now has 215,000 km and the ONLY problem we've had with it is those stupid intake manifold gaskets. It's an 02 btw. I'm sure many can say the opposite about their GM's.
No need for the bashing to continue, and on with the 10k 0W20 syn discussion
To add to the original post, I absolutely think the 0W20 syn can go the 10k intervals. Whether people follow the recommendations and/or like them is a different story entirely. But if someone were to switch back to dino and run more normal intervals (5k), I'm sure that would be fine as well.
If Toyota and other companies can successfully educate the public and their customers, then they wouldn't feel slighted at the higher cost oil due to longer service interval and less inconvenience of frequent servicing. Plus, they can still choose any mechanic / service shop of their choice and put any brand syn 0W20 of their choice (unlike the more difficult and restrictive VW 505 garbage like someone else mentioned for example).
Sorry, I can't resist
To add to ARCO's ramblings... My brother purchased his first car in 2005, a 2003 Toyota Matrix XR with the base 1.8L 1ZZFE. This is also our first Toyota product (and second Japanese car - previously all domestic, and still do have domestics in the family). While it is a good little car, and continues to serve him well, it is not without issues. It began burning a lot of oil at about 90,000 km. A compression test revealed that 3 cylinders had low compression, and 1 very low. Bad rings. Previous owner had all oil changes documented and were done on time. Engine ran great and burned very little oil when we bought it. It now burns 1 qt per 1000 miles, sometimes more, sometimes less. The recirc door servo broke, the blower motor resistor was toast, there are numerous creaks and rattles, the wiper motor is about to kick the bucket, his front wheel bearing is nearing the end of its life, the idler pulley needs replacement, the A/C is not very cold, his gas mileage is not always very good (sometimes great though), and I have an educated hunch that one of his transmission shaft bearings is worn (5 M/T).
I have no doubt that this car will continue to run just fine for years to come, despite its issues. No, Toyota is not perfect. They aren't the perfect cars that most people think they are. They're just like everything else out there! Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.
My mother's Chevy Venture that has had nothing but horribly short trips, towing trailers, loading up with heavy junk, and being used and abused daily, now has 215,000 km and the ONLY problem we've had with it is those stupid intake manifold gaskets. It's an 02 btw. I'm sure many can say the opposite about their GM's.
No need for the bashing to continue, and on with the 10k 0W20 syn discussion
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
Toyota shill
Ford fanboy
If you only got 58k out of a 2AZFE, YOU, did something wrong(mr cert mechanic).
It appears you havent read my post. The Car was serviced by TOYOTA exclusively. I am no fan of ford, but they appear to have a better handle on 5w20 engine design than does Toyota in my experience. Ford needs better suppliers and assembly qc. I am just reporting my personal experience with two toyotas owned by my family. You are bringing NOTHING to these discussions with your asinine comments and will be reported.
Toyota shill
Ford fanboy
If you only got 58k out of a 2AZFE, YOU, did something wrong(mr cert mechanic).
It appears you havent read my post. The Car was serviced by TOYOTA exclusively. I am no fan of ford, but they appear to have a better handle on 5w20 engine design than does Toyota in my experience. Ford needs better suppliers and assembly qc. I am just reporting my personal experience with two toyotas owned by my family. You are bringing NOTHING to these discussions with your asinine comments and will be reported.
Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Needless to say, we traded the car for the 09 fos x 5mt subaru ( $18.9K off the lot). Driving home it developed a rod knock.
Your new Subaru developed a rod knock on the way home?
Seriously, it sounds like you have extremely lousy luck. For an engine to last no longer than 40-60k miles is pretty much unheard of these days. Where is your commute, man?
It was my wifes car. Commutes was between So. NH and the North of Boston, MA about 75 miles total daily, 50/50 30mph back roads and 70 mph highway. I have stated there was a documented ( by suzuki) problem with the filter that suzuki and toyota use on these engines, Suzuki changed suppliers to Austria and Toyota did not. Once i changed to wix on my surviving Yaris 1nz - all was well in addition to requiring "synthetic" oil (castrol syntec works well with some addition of 10w40 to quiet things down. I saved MY car - I left the maintenance of my wifes rav4 to the local Toyota dealer and suffered the consequences. My wife does not notice engine noises to alert her something is amiss. To elway - I lOVE the engine in the Yaris -just trying to keep it healthy; now I realise Local Toyota Service Centre is not going to do this.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Needless to say, we traded the car for the 09 fos x 5mt subaru ( $18.9K off the lot). Driving home it developed a rod knock.
Your new Subaru developed a rod knock on the way home?
Seriously, it sounds like you have extremely lousy luck. For an engine to last no longer than 40-60k miles is pretty much unheard of these days. Where is your commute, man?
It was my wifes car. Commutes was between So. NH and the North of Boston, MA about 75 miles total daily, 50/50 30mph back roads and 70 mph highway. I have stated there was a documented ( by suzuki) problem with the filter that suzuki and toyota use on these engines, Suzuki changed suppliers to Austria and Toyota did not. Once i changed to wix on my surviving Yaris 1nz - all was well in addition to requiring "synthetic" oil (castrol syntec works well with some addition of 10w40 to quiet things down. I saved MY car - I left the maintenance of my wifes rav4 to the local Toyota dealer and suffered the consequences. My wife does not notice engine noises to alert her something is amiss. To elway - I lOVE the engine in the Yaris -just trying to keep it healthy; now I realise Local Toyota Service Centre is not going to do this.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
OK..So far in this thread.. lots of Naysayers to 10k OCI's that I disagree with and a particularly out of the ordinary poster claiming extraordinarily short engine lifes with some questionable credibility.
I believe 30 oil changes at 10k mile OCI's will be quite doable in an enines lifetime with 0w20.
would not a normal distribution put some engine life at infant mortality and some at 400K miles? Well, we got one near the left end of the curve(-6s), mostly helped along by the local service center. This is absolutely normal and predictable. I would not keep repeating my story if folks would not constantly discount it as rubbish. We lost $$$ in having to sell this in poor working order. A little compassion would be welcome
OK..So far in this thread.. lots of Naysayers to 10k OCI's that I disagree with and a particularly out of the ordinary poster claiming extraordinarily short engine lifes with some questionable credibility.
I believe 30 oil changes at 10k mile OCI's will be quite doable in an enines lifetime with 0w20.
would not a normal distribution put some engine life at infant mortality and some at 400K miles? Well, we got one near the left end of the curve(-6s), mostly helped along by the local service center. This is absolutely normal and predictable. I would not keep repeating my story if folks would not constantly discount it as rubbish. We lost $$$ in having to sell this in poor working order. A little compassion would be welcome
I hope they know what they think their doing.
Arco:
I've got no problem in general with how you post here. Unlike many others who take controversial positions, you're not doing it with any sense of personal ugliness. Please stay on that course, and if you do, knock yourself out.
That said, surely you must see the massively improbable nature of the things you are stating about your little fleet of seemingly doomed Toyotas. What you are stating happened to you flies in the face of the provable experiences of literally millions of other Toyota owners. Now, make no mistake about it, Toyota is no more capable of making a perfect product than any other car maker. That said, you should not be surprised to be called on what you're claiming, given the good experiences of so many others.
Incidentally, I changed oil on the TCH about two weeks ago. Pulled off the Denso filter I'd tried, cut it open, and found no problems at all. Everything intact, and no even a hint of visible debris on the dirty side. Replaced it with an M1-103 simply because I still have a bunch on hand. Filled with fresh PP 0w-20. No signs of any problems anywhere. The 04 Prius is approaching 90k miles, no hint of problems, not even a drop of noticeable oil use. Hmmmmm. Guess I'm luckier than you are. . .
I've got no problem in general with how you post here. Unlike many others who take controversial positions, you're not doing it with any sense of personal ugliness. Please stay on that course, and if you do, knock yourself out.
That said, surely you must see the massively improbable nature of the things you are stating about your little fleet of seemingly doomed Toyotas. What you are stating happened to you flies in the face of the provable experiences of literally millions of other Toyota owners. Now, make no mistake about it, Toyota is no more capable of making a perfect product than any other car maker. That said, you should not be surprised to be called on what you're claiming, given the good experiences of so many others.
Incidentally, I changed oil on the TCH about two weeks ago. Pulled off the Denso filter I'd tried, cut it open, and found no problems at all. Everything intact, and no even a hint of visible debris on the dirty side. Replaced it with an M1-103 simply because I still have a bunch on hand. Filled with fresh PP 0w-20. No signs of any problems anywhere. The 04 Prius is approaching 90k miles, no hint of problems, not even a drop of noticeable oil use. Hmmmmm. Guess I'm luckier than you are. . .
Originally Posted By: lexus114
I hope they know what they think their doing.
They do. They have not forgotten their little late 90s/early 00s sludge disaster. And I have no question that they've done the research (if for no other reason than to cover themselves in any future litigation so that they can prove they had a reasonable basis for the 10k recommendation).
I hope they know what they think their doing.
They do. They have not forgotten their little late 90s/early 00s sludge disaster. And I have no question that they've done the research (if for no other reason than to cover themselves in any future litigation so that they can prove they had a reasonable basis for the 10k recommendation).
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Quote:
would not a normal distribution put some engine life at infant mortality and some at 400K miles? Well, we got one near the left end of the curve(-6s), mostly helped along by the local service center. This is absolutely normal and predictable. I would not keep repeating my story if folks would not constantly discount it as rubbish. We lost $$$ in having to sell this in poor working order. A little compassion would be welcome
..respectfully ...
..but you don't appear to cite your experience as exceptional. You seem to promote the notion that YOU can't possibly be any part of the equation and that ONLY faulty manufacturing is the cause. In you're personal case, you'll even concede that you flog the things mercilessly ..and, at least in my perception/interpretation (read "theme"), feel that this is something to be in the designed DNA of any car you buy.
If you were saying "I got the 2 lemons in the bunch" in sincerity instead of tongue in cheek, then you would have just cause to get a little miffed at the responses you're getting.
would not a normal distribution put some engine life at infant mortality and some at 400K miles? Well, we got one near the left end of the curve(-6s), mostly helped along by the local service center. This is absolutely normal and predictable. I would not keep repeating my story if folks would not constantly discount it as rubbish. We lost $$$ in having to sell this in poor working order. A little compassion would be welcome
..respectfully ...
..but you don't appear to cite your experience as exceptional. You seem to promote the notion that YOU can't possibly be any part of the equation and that ONLY faulty manufacturing is the cause. In you're personal case, you'll even concede that you flog the things mercilessly ..and, at least in my perception/interpretation (read "theme"), feel that this is something to be in the designed DNA of any car you buy.
If you were saying "I got the 2 lemons in the bunch" in sincerity instead of tongue in cheek, then you would have just cause to get a little miffed at the responses you're getting.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Arco:
Guess I'm luckier than you are. . .
I would tend to agree. I am one unlucky guy, I'll give you that. My wife bought me 50 scratch tickets for my 50th birthday (years ago) and I only won a free ticket $1 out of the lot; thats pertty much statistically impossible. ON your prius, is the threaded nipple onto which the filter screws somewhat short? I was not able to run a purolator prem on my Yaris - it would only screw on 1-1/2 turns. On the Rav 2az - no problem - many turns before seating (5+).
Arco:
Guess I'm luckier than you are. . .
I would tend to agree. I am one unlucky guy, I'll give you that. My wife bought me 50 scratch tickets for my 50th birthday (years ago) and I only won a free ticket $1 out of the lot; thats pertty much statistically impossible. ON your prius, is the threaded nipple onto which the filter screws somewhat short? I was not able to run a purolator prem on my Yaris - it would only screw on 1-1/2 turns. On the Rav 2az - no problem - many turns before seating (5+).
ARCO,
That lotto thing seems to be right in the middle of probability.
Sounds like a problem with the Purolator Premium then.
That lotto thing seems to be right in the middle of probability.
Sounds like a problem with the Purolator Premium then.
Ok you have my compassion. You have had some bad runs. Statistacly you are unlucky
Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: buster
Hmmm, I would think most cars that come filled or recommend synthetic get synthetic oil. No?
Nope. Quick Lubes do not want to turn away cars. If a customer does not want synthetic oil in a car that requires 0w-20, they would probably fill it with 5w-20 and note on the invoice that the customer declined synthetic oil.
Not even. Try 5W30 or 10W30 bulk. Most people that visit a quick lube don't want to spend money.
From what I've found, you can't often trust the dealer to put the right oil in.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: buster
Hmmm, I would think most cars that come filled or recommend synthetic get synthetic oil. No?
Nope. Quick Lubes do not want to turn away cars. If a customer does not want synthetic oil in a car that requires 0w-20, they would probably fill it with 5w-20 and note on the invoice that the customer declined synthetic oil.
Not even. Try 5W30 or 10W30 bulk. Most people that visit a quick lube don't want to spend money.
From what I've found, you can't often trust the dealer to put the right oil in.
FYI Toyota 0W-20 @ a New London CT yota dealer was < $7/qt, so you can wreck your 1NZ-FE for less the $30 if you want.
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
Toyota shill
Ford fanboy
If you only got 58k out of a 2AZFE, YOU, did something wrong(mr cert mechanic).
It appears you havent read my post. The Car was serviced by TOYOTA exclusively. I am no fan of ford, but they appear to have a better handle on 5w20 engine design than does Toyota in my experience. Ford needs better suppliers and assembly qc. I am just reporting my personal experience with two toyotas owned by my family. You are bringing NOTHING to these discussions with your asinine comments and will be reported.
Whatever man, I do not believe your posts for ONE minute
Here's my car history for ya:
1995 S-10 (first new car) Castrol Syntec then Mobil 1
60k miles, no consumed oil between changes and ran like top
1999 Ford Ranger Mobil 1
40k miles and no consumed oil between changes
2000 Saturn SL2 Amsoil and German Castrol 70k miles and NO consumed oil between changes on an engine that people loved to claim used oil
2001 Toyota Tacoma V6 70k miles (bought used) Amsoil and Mobil
No consumed oil between changes
1998 Ranger (saturn got totaled) PP and NO consumed oil between changes; 80k miles on engine
2007 Hyundai Sonata; bought new; has 66k miles to date, PP and Mobil, no consumed oil between changes (5k miles)
2009 Scion xB, with your problem engine, and getting ready to start feeding it Amsoil now that its broken in.
Save your credentials, your [censored] is made up. You do not have bad luck, you have FUD.
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
Toyota shill
Ford fanboy
If you only got 58k out of a 2AZFE, YOU, did something wrong(mr cert mechanic).
It appears you havent read my post. The Car was serviced by TOYOTA exclusively. I am no fan of ford, but they appear to have a better handle on 5w20 engine design than does Toyota in my experience. Ford needs better suppliers and assembly qc. I am just reporting my personal experience with two toyotas owned by my family. You are bringing NOTHING to these discussions with your asinine comments and will be reported.
Whatever man, I do not believe your posts for ONE minute
Here's my car history for ya:
1995 S-10 (first new car) Castrol Syntec then Mobil 1
60k miles, no consumed oil between changes and ran like top
1999 Ford Ranger Mobil 1
40k miles and no consumed oil between changes
2000 Saturn SL2 Amsoil and German Castrol 70k miles and NO consumed oil between changes on an engine that people loved to claim used oil
2001 Toyota Tacoma V6 70k miles (bought used) Amsoil and Mobil
No consumed oil between changes
1998 Ranger (saturn got totaled) PP and NO consumed oil between changes; 80k miles on engine
2007 Hyundai Sonata; bought new; has 66k miles to date, PP and Mobil, no consumed oil between changes (5k miles)
2009 Scion xB, with your problem engine, and getting ready to start feeding it Amsoil now that its broken in.
Save your credentials, your [censored] is made up. You do not have bad luck, you have FUD.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: PT1
ekpolk said:
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: PT1
ekpolk said:
Arco:
Two more errors. Only one Toyota I-4 had a sludge vulnerability for part of the time it was built. That was the 5S-FE, which went out of production nearly a decade ago. And even that engine was not guaranteed to sludge -- it did so if maintenance was ignored. The Toyota I-4s since, and many before, are amazingly reliable. Actually, so is the 5S, so long as you don't push the oil too far.
Two more errors. Only one Toyota I-4 had a sludge vulnerability for part of the time it was built. That was the 5S-FE, which went out of production nearly a decade ago. And even that engine was not guaranteed to sludge -- it did so if maintenance was ignored. The Toyota I-4s since, and many before, are amazingly reliable. Actually, so is the 5S, so long as you don't push the oil too far.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Arco:
Two more errors. Only one Toyota I-4 had a sludge vulnerability for part of the time it was built. That was the 5S-FE, which went out of production nearly a decade ago. And even that engine was not guaranteed to sludge -- it did so if maintenance was ignored.
No errors - I did not specify 2az as a sludger. They sludged on well maintained cars - My bosses died and it was regularly maintained on valvoline durablend by his brother who was a master technician. He was astonished his car died. And so was I - my first experience with the "Sludger" issue. This is either an oil spec or engine design issue ar a combination of both. I can Email Joe D. and find out exact details, but I recall the car had less than 70K on it and it was a camry 5spd manual.
Arco:
Two more errors. Only one Toyota I-4 had a sludge vulnerability for part of the time it was built. That was the 5S-FE, which went out of production nearly a decade ago. And even that engine was not guaranteed to sludge -- it did so if maintenance was ignored.
No errors - I did not specify 2az as a sludger. They sludged on well maintained cars - My bosses died and it was regularly maintained on valvoline durablend by his brother who was a master technician. He was astonished his car died. And so was I - my first experience with the "Sludger" issue. This is either an oil spec or engine design issue ar a combination of both. I can Email Joe D. and find out exact details, but I recall the car had less than 70K on it and it was a camry 5spd manual.
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