VW and 502.....and Amsoil European Car Formula

[BigJohn]

Is anyone running this oil in their VW's and if you are, where would you stand if you have had to cash in on an engine warranty issue. Amsoil states that it is recommended....but recommended by who?

Our new Rabbit calls for 10k mile OCI's and I am concerned other oils really being able to stand up to the extended miles.


"Product Description
AMSOIL European Car Formula 100% Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil (AFL) is specially formulated for the lubrication needs of modern European gasoline and diesel cars and light trucks. Formulated with advanced AMSOIL synthetic base stocks, premium additives and a 5W-40 viscosity rating, AMSOIL AFL is the preferred oil for virtually all European automobiles, especially turbo charged models. It is one of the only oils in North America to be recommended for the latest specifications of all three major European automakers - Volkswagen (Audi), BMW and Mercedes-Benz and the latest North American API specification. AMSOIL AFL is highly versatile for multiple applications."

 

[BigJohn]

I just noticed the "starburst" on the front only referenced 505.01. My Rabbit calls for 502. So I did a little more digging. This is what I found.



APPLICATION
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:

API SM/CF
ACEA C3-04
ACEA A3/B3-04
ACEA A3/B4-04
ACEA C3
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725

 

[saaber1]

Can you say, "HUGE can of worms?" This has been debated endlessly. Do a search.

Bottom line is only oils listed on VWs official list are officially approved by VW.

And there are lots of oils that are very likely better than the vw approved oils but are not on the list due to either their formulation OR the fact that the oil maker did not test the oil to be on the list.

From personal communication, I know that some manufacturers do not test their oils on certain tests because they know the oil does not meet some of the specs, for example a MAXIMUM P level. They want higher P levels for protection and are concerned with making the best oil they can, vw/other tests be d.a.m.n.e.d

I think you could make an argument for example that amsoil, german castrol, M1 TDT 5w40, redline, renewable lubricants biosyn, shaeffers and probably others are great performing oils in VWs and none of those is on the official list.

 

[bruno]

If it ain't on VW's list don't use it .
If Amsoil is too cheap to get their oil on the list too bad !

 

[Saab9-3]

Would redline 5w40 be safe for and 01 passag v6? I know it is not on the 502 list.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: Saab9-3
Would redline 5w40 be safe for and 01 passag v6? I know it is not on the 502 list.

I have been using it in my 08 GTI and it had the highest cST viscosity, second highest SUS viscosity, and highest flashpoint of 33 UOAs on that engine http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1410715&fpart=1. But to be fair, it does have the highest starting viscosity. I found the TAN to be higher than expected but I was doing 90% city driving in the winter which is really a worst case scenario. I am doing more highway driving with this car now so it will be interesting to see the TAN at the next 5000 mile mark. Iron was below average (based on a very small data set) at 9000 miles at 6 ppm/1000 miles.

The 2.O FSI is direct injection and it beats the heck out of oils. Typically viscosity and flashpoint drop very fast so this engine is a good "test vehicle" ha ha for how an oil deals with fuel dilution.

I am going to either stick with Redline 5W40 or use redline 10W40 for next oil change. I will probably do this until I see evidence that there is a better performing oil out there for this engine. Depending on the next UOA results, I may even try redline 10W30 just as an experiment. Cost for this oil was $7.49/qt at carquest buying it by the case.

 

[Saab9-3]

Good to know thanks I'll try it in the passat

 

[JosephH1]

I ran the Amsoil Euro in my 06 GTI and the UOA results are included in the thread listed above. In short, the oil held up much better than the Castrol Syntec but it was spent by 5k miles. This of course is in a direct injection engine known for destroying oil. I have no doubt that it is a quality product. I am currently running the RLI Biosyn oil. I will be doing a UOA on that oil in about 2 months and will post the results.

 

[dmk]

Originally Posted By: bruno
If it ain't on VW's list don't use it .
If Amsoil is too cheap to get their oil on the list too bad !


I agree 100% here. You gotta pay to play.

 

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted By: dmk
Originally Posted By: bruno
If it ain't on VW's list don't use it .
If Amsoil is too cheap to get their oil on the list too bad !


I agree 100% here. You gotta pay to play.



I'm totally with ya there, but I read too many reports that M1 0W40 isn't lasting the 10k OCI in VW's, as well as GC. Maybe the thing to do is stay with 502 oil and simply do a 5k OCI.

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: BigJohn
I just noticed the "starburst" on the front only referenced 505.01. My Rabbit calls for 502. So I did a little more digging. This is what I found.

APPLICATION
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:

API SM/CF
ACEA C3-04
ACEA A3/B3-04
ACEA A3/B4-04
ACEA C3
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725

Amsoil 100% Synthetic 5W-40 (and the other Amsoil 100% Synthetics) does not have any of the above certifications. Note the exact wording that Amsoil uses:

"recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications"

They do not say that the oil has obtained any of these certifications.

Note the when Amsoil lists certifications for their non-100% Synthetics, they do not use wording such as "recommended for...vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications". They just list the certifications. The distinction may be subtle (too subtle in my opinion), but I do think I am reading it correctly.

Amsoil explains here why some of their oils are not certified:
http://www.amsoil.com/news/2008_worried_over_warranties.pdf

Personally, I am not sure one way or the other about the explanation. My suspicion is that they are not Energy Conserving Formulas (which is one reason why the test so well in most tests).

Until a few years ago, Mobil 1 EP also lacked API energy conserving formula certifications, but they are now, so I am fairly certain that they changed their formula to get the certs.

An energy conserving formula is inherently thinner (even for the same viscosity), and may not test quite as well in certain other tests that are typically found in Amsoil advertisements.

 

[BigJohn]

Well, the decision is made and it was prompted by Castrol initiating a sale!!!!

Yep, I just jumped at the $24.99 deal on 5W40 with a K&N filter.

 

[crw]

Originally Posted By: bruno
If it ain't on VW's list don't use it .
If Amsoil is too cheap to get their oil on the list too bad !


... if you are under warranty and want to preserve that, stick with the list.

Otherwise, use Amsoil and some other great oils with confidence.

 

[BigJohn]

Yep....just purchased some Castrol 5w40 with the filter on the $24.99 deal Advanced Auto that is 502 rated.