Yet ANOTHER, irresponsible pet owner!

[Astro14]

NHHEMI and others fully comprehend the situation and have provided good advice. Antiqueshell, you presume they don't understand because they're not agreeing with you. But you've stopped listening because you're making this about "who" is right, and not about "what" is right.

What you fail to acknowledge is your responsibility to avoid escalation/confrontation. In other words, you can't pick a fight, even though the pet owners are irresponsible. This was mentioned by others early on in the thread.

Antiqueshell - you need to consult with an attorney before you put yourself in trouble.

 

[antiqueshell]

Indeed many here keep harping on the "gun" issue. I have again repeated that unless I am in fear of my life a gun will NOT be used. Period. I stated to the actor that I would "let the law handle it".

The most likely scenario is that the actor who owns the "at large" dog will let the dog continue to run loose and out of control and it will bite me. That incident alone would NOT make me in fear of my life. I will get the bite on video and contact both animal control and the state troopers so that the appropriate "legal" action can be taken, NOTHING MORE.

The streets are public property that EVERYONE is free to use as long as they respect the law.

The only one "picking a fight" here is the irresponsible owner that insists on letting the dog run at large on public streets. IN VIOLATION of the law. This same owner that decided to attempt to provoke a confrontation by actually walking the animal down my own street and let the dog out on a long leash so that it could get very close to me.

The reason I have not called the authorities yet is to give the owner EVERY chance to change his behavior, and hope he will do so. Calling them WILL escalate the situation greatly. I believe with this person that it would more likely lead to retaliation as opposed to what I have done up to this point. But he has had his LAST warning from me. Next time the police will be called.

My guess is that many posting here are not interested in giving "sound advice" so much as most likely reinforcing their own similar behavior with respect to failure to control their dogs according to the laws in their own communities.


Like I mentioned in an earlier post...since the last provocative confrontation by this actor on my own street near my own home (over a week ago ) there has been NO problem. I certainly hope it stays just that way. Maybe he has realized that he has no choice but to follow the law.

 

[antiqueshell]

I should add that PRIOR to when the owner had the dog I NEVER had ANY sort of issue with him at all (3 years). Seemed to be an "OK" neighbor. I said hello on occasion, and waving back and forth when he would see me from his property and in his vehicle. Just puzzling and strange.

This is also why I haven't called authorities. I certainly don't want bad relations with people that live close to me.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Indeed many here keep harping on the "gun" issue. I have again repeated that unless I am in fear of my life a gun will NOT be used.


The problem is you know before hand that there is the potential for physical harm or even death( dogs can kill humans )if you continue to go on that street even when you do not have to do so. That negates any legal or moral grounds you think you have. You keep trying to rationalize gun use in extreme situations. The problem is the only way you get to that point is if you continue to go there to prove you are right and end up having to use the gun. In that scenario you are the one who is wrong.

If you stay away from that street then you stay away from the problem( yes I know they came to your street once )and the issue of to use or not use a gun is pointless. If you keep going there with a gun and end up having to use it you are going to end up in jail and those "irresponsible pet owners" you detest so much will end up having a case against you. They win in that case not you. You will be in jail and they will own everything you used to own.

I am "harping" on the gun issue because you brought it up and still do even though you try and deflect attention away from the gun comments you have made. I take notice when anyone says they are even thinking about using a gun to solve a problem. Especially when there are so many other non lethal ways to deal with it. Carrying a gun is a big, no HUGE, responsibility. Using it is an even bigger one. I am a responsible gun owner and I hate it when people talk of using them( or actually do so )in a reckless maner as you have been doing. Makes us all look bad. You could injur or kill an innocent person very easily.

As Astro pointed out you only care about "who" is right and not "what" is right. You may be right on principle about use of that street but that doesn't make continuing to go there, and talks of using a gun if needed, the right way to handle it. The simple fact you can't( or won't )see that shows you are not responsible and mature enough to be carrying a gun for ANY reason. You are a danger to yourself and more importantly the community around you with the attitude I have seen from you here.

Again, avoid that street as you do not HAVE to go there( it is your choice ). Any further incidents on your street then call the Police and let the proper authorities handle it. Forget totally about the gun for any reason. Find a new place to go for walks and move on with your life.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Indeed many here keep harping on the "gun" issue. I have again repeated that unless I am in fear of my life a gun will NOT be used.


The problem is you know before hand that there is the potential for physical harm or even death( dogs can kill humans )if you continue to go on that street even when you do not have to do so. That negates any legal or moral grounds you think you have. You keep trying to rationalize gun use in extreme situations. The problem is the only way you get to that point is if you continue to go there to prove you are right and end up having to use the gun. In that scenario you are the one who is wrong.




NHHEMI:

You are flat out legally and technically WRONG.
Put aside the gun issue, and look at the situation without it.

According the "letter of the law" (in our county) there is NOTHING that states it is MY responsibility to avoid a public street which is literally within 50 yards of my own home because of a dog loose at large and the owner allowing it.

Please demonstrate to me how the technicalities of the law would make ME liable for any damages that occur, on the contrary it IS the letter of the law that the "actor" CANNOT let his dog run "at large" or allow it to be out of his control AT ANY TIME (even on his own property.) Not only that but our local law states that anyone threatened by such an animal can use "lethal force" to defend themselves if they believe they are in danger of being bitten or attacked. That is not what "I think or believe", it is the law as it is written.

Did you read my last posts? Didn't think so.

I said that as of the last provocative action by the subject and his wife on my own street, one week ago, there has been NO problem at all. I have simply continued to use the only and regular walking jogging route available to me, without getting in my car and driving 15 miles to a park. It appears that the owner now realizes that he will NOT be able to "violate the law" with impunity, without serious consequences.

The tipping point seemed to be when I mentioned in the most serious tone about calling the state troopers in addition to animal control after the idiots wife opened her trap and his idiotic raging. I think he realized what a dumb thing it was to threaten me and has no desire to have his dog euthanized, lose his freedom (jail time) or lose his sizable properties.

Not only that, but the rest of the neighbors can now use those streets (yes two of them) to also walk their own leashed dogs, or to jog on. Which I know they haven't been recently because of this guys belligerent actions.


I get no glee out of having to be "the one" that puts his foot down (indeed it makes one a bit fearful), but somebody has to do it or else punks like this keep pushing the envelope further and further.

 

[Astro14]

You still haven't talked to an attorney have you?

Relying on your own legal understanding in this situation isn't wise.

Ad hominem attacks on those who have taken the time to try and explain it to you won't change that.

In the meantime, you've not put your foot down, you've not contacted the authorities, you've not engaged legal advice, you've done nothing, stood up to nothing...you've spoken to the owner...so what?

If you had spent half the effort on doing your due diligence in this situation that you've spent arguing on this thread, this situation would have been completely resolved a long time ago...

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
You still haven't talked to an attorney have you?

Actually I have. He agrees with most everything I am doing and has assured me that I'm legally, ALONG with the spirit of the law am in the right and clear. He has recommended that I not carry the gun, unless I truly believe my life will be in mortal danger. I have agreed with him and will not carry at this point. He did however say that if the owner and or his dog were involved with injury and or possible death, EVEN IF I knew about the problem beforehand, I would be relieved of any responsibility for damages or injury. There is a "reasonable expectation of safety" on public roads, and streets for pedestrians.

Quote:

In the meantime, you've not put your foot down, you've not contacted the authorities, you've not engaged legal advice, you've done nothing, stood up to nothing...you've spoken to the owner...so what?

If you had spent half the effort on doing your due diligence in this situation that you've spent arguing on this thread, this situation would have been completely resolved a long time ago...


You do NOT know the absolute specifics of this situation. If you read latest previous posts carefully, you would have learned things that don't make your "expert" suggestions completely correct. In fact they would have inflamed the situation and made things worse.

My objective was to push back firmly but repeatedly (without having the staties showing up at his door) until he "got it". It appears he has. In the end that is all that matters. The problem is solved. For myself and other neighbors.

"Putting my foot down" was giving a final warning that if we couldn't settle it ourselves the authorities would get involved. Obviously he is smart enough to know better. It's been a week without any issues at all. That is all that matters.

 

[Astro14]

Once again, you presume they my reading comprehension is poor. It is not. It is, however, difficult to keep up with a conveniently shifting set of facts.

I am pleased that you did heed the advice to seek legal counsel....and I understand the reasonable expectation of safety, that was never in contention. The point of contention was the responsibility of one who is armed (your stated intent, you brought it up) to avoid confrontation.

At least I'll sleep better knowing that the poor dog won't get shot.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Astro14


At least I'll sleep better knowing that the poor dog won't get shot.


That "poor dog" is DANGEROUS!

If it EVER bites me it will be euthanized.

Unfortunately where I live they cannot imprison the owner for reckless behavior with the dog. But any ambulance chaser will gladly relieve him of every penny he has. LOL

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Indeed many here keep harping on the "gun" issue. I have again repeated that unless I am in fear of my life a gun will NOT be used.


The problem is you know before hand that there is the potential for physical harm or even death( dogs can kill humans )if you continue to go on that street even when you do not have to do so. That negates any legal or moral grounds you think you have. You keep trying to rationalize gun use in extreme situations. The problem is the only way you get to that point is if you continue to go there to prove you are right and end up having to use the gun. In that scenario you are the one who is wrong.




NHHEMI:

You are flat out legally and technically WRONG.
Put aside the gun issue, and look at the situation without it.

According the "letter of the law" (in our county) there is NOTHING that states it is MY responsibility to avoid a public street which is literally within 50 yards of my own home because of a dog loose at large and the owner allowing it.

Please demonstrate to me how the technicalities of the law would make ME liable for any damages that occur, on the contrary it IS the letter of the law that the "actor" CANNOT let his dog run "at large" or allow it to be out of his control AT ANY TIME (even on his own property.) Not only that but our local law states that anyone threatened by such an animal can use "lethal force" to defend themselves if they believe they are in danger of being bitten or attacked. That is not what "I think or believe", it is the law as it is written.

Did you read my last posts? Didn't think so.

I said that as of the last provocative action by the subject and his wife on my own street, one week ago, there has been NO problem at all. I have simply continued to use the only and regular walking jogging route available to me, without getting in my car and driving 15 miles to a park. It appears that the owner now realizes that he will NOT be able to "violate the law" with impunity, without serious consequences.

The tipping point seemed to be when I mentioned in the most serious tone about calling the state troopers in addition to animal control after the idiots wife opened her trap and his idiotic raging. I think he realized what a dumb thing it was to threaten me and has no desire to have his dog euthanized, lose his freedom (jail time) or lose his sizable properties.

Not only that, but the rest of the neighbors can now use those streets (yes two of them) to also walk their own leashed dogs, or to jog on. Which I know they haven't been recently because of this guys belligerent actions.


I get no glee out of having to be "the one" that puts his foot down (indeed it makes one a bit fearful), but somebody has to do it or else punks like this keep pushing the envelope further and further.






I feel sorry for you. And for the record I do not believe you have consulted an attorney about what you propose to do( i.e. the gun ). Not and present it to him as you have to us anyway. You are either making it up to save face or you told him a different version of your plans and the situation than you have to us. I don't care what state you live in what you talk of is NOT self defense for all the reasons I have mentioned and even shown in the link! If you do end up shooting that dog it is the result of forethought and a calculated plan. It is not self defense. Just rubbish.

I have done what I can to help you and save you from making a huge mistake. You refuse to listen. You are so full of righteous indignation that you can't see you are more of a danger to people than the dog is.

For the last and final time please rethink what you are doing and let the appropriate authorities handle this. You are not in control of yourself enough to be responsible with a gun. Today you leave it home. Tomorrow you get mad again and take it and end up shooting the dog and possibly an innocent bystander. Then you go to jail. Just not worth it.

If you have any more to say to me please do so via PM. I want to stay oout of this but because of the seriousness of it I have a hard time letting you continue to quote me and post false and dangerous info that others may read without responding. As long as you don't reply to me any longer I will stay out of it.

 

[andrewg]

I'm going to have to agree with NHHEMI on this. While I don't know if in truth you have spoken to an attorney, I'll have to take you at your word.....BUT, I think your attorney is either pandering to your level of conviction in a feeble attempt to calm you down, or he is fishing for a new case.
Isn't this the second thread you've started on this topic? I'm thinking that you should consider removing yourself from this whole mess entirely to cool off. Maybe consider a short vacation away from home and calm down to gain a more balanced and unemotional perspective.
Just my opinion.

 

[antiqueshell]

NHHEMI:

There you go again. LOL

Did you read where I mentioned IN THE PREVIOUS posts that under the recommendation of the attorney I will NOT be carrying the gun? Of course not.

I most certainly DID consult an attorney and that those previous posts are exactly what he stated.

Go read them. Because the fact is YOU DID NOT.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

Actually I have. He agrees with most everything I am doing and has assured me that I'm legally, ALONG with the spirit of the law am in the right and clear. He has recommended that I not carry the gun, unless I truly believe my life will be in mortal danger. I have agreed with him and will not carry at this point. He did however say that if the owner and or his dog were involved with injury and or possible death, EVEN IF I knew about the problem beforehand, I would be relieved of any responsibility for damages or injury. There is a "reasonable expectation of safety" on public roads, and streets for pedestrians.



NHHEMI:
I guess your "comprehension is "selective".


That being said it seems that this idiot has understood the potential consequences of his reckless actions with regard to his animal and his provocative behavior and has "got it" I have had no issues since that day and the guy passed me in his car yesterday and actually waved at me, like he did in the past. My guess is that he consulted his own attorney and was informed in no uncertain terms that if he threatens me himself or uses his animal and/or if I am injured, he could possibly be arrested and be doing jail time in addition to being sued for every last cent he has not to mention that the dog would be euthanized if he bites me. This guy can't possibly be that dumb.

NHHEMI, I get the feeling that you may be of a similar bent like the owner I've been dealing with. You better hope that your own dogs don't injure an innocent pedestrian walking along your public streets. That person has EVERY right to be there and no amount of "rationalization" of how they are supposed to accommodate your irresponsible behavior will save you from a huge law suit.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Hey antiqueshell,I have to say that I totally agree with you. You have the right to enjoy the public streets hands down. Has the owner tried to play *tough guy* and threaten you in any way? If so,maybe it's time you hand his [censored] to him and show him what happens when he messes with the wrong person. I'm by no means a violent guy,but if someone wants to personally challenge me,I will take said challenge in a heartbeat!

Keep us updated,ok? I hope these bozos decide to act like responsible grown-ups,and if they don't,put them in their place antiqueshell.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Has the owner tried to play *tough guy* and threaten you in any way?

.


First thanks for your support. At some point, good people need to act.

As a matter of fact he did try that. But I think the thought of the state troopers banging on his door did the trick. Scroll though my earlier posts.

The odd thing is that I knew this guy as a passing acquaintance for YEARS. (Been exercising jogging/walking these streets near my home) Never had any problem with him prior to the dog appearing on the scene about 8 or 9 months ago.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

Actually I have. He agrees with most everything I am doing and has assured me that I'm legally, ALONG with the spirit of the law am in the right and clear. He has recommended that I not carry the gun, unless I truly believe my life will be in mortal danger. I have agreed with him and will not carry at this point. He did however say that if the owner and or his dog were involved with injury and or possible death, EVEN IF I knew about the problem beforehand, I would be relieved of any responsibility for damages or injury. There is a "reasonable expectation of safety" on public roads, and streets for pedestrians.



NHHEMI:
I guess your "comprehension is "selective".


That being said it seems that this idiot has understood the potential consequences of his reckless actions with regard to his animal and his provocative behavior and has "got it" I have had no issues since that day and the guy passed me in his car yesterday and actually waved at me, like he did in the past. My guess is that he consulted his own attorney and was informed in no uncertain terms that if he threatens me himself or uses his animal and/or if I am injured, he could possibly be arrested and be doing jail time in addition to being sued for every last cent he has not to mention that the dog would be euthanized if he bites me. This guy can't possibly be that dumb.

NHHEMI, I get the feeling that you may be of a similar bent like the owner I've been dealing with. You better hope that your own dogs don't injure an innocent pedestrian walking along your public streets. That person has EVERY right to be there and no amount of "rationalization" of how they are supposed to accommodate your irresponsible behavior will save you from a huge law suit.


You just won't let it end...so be it.

1st off I am more responsible with my dogs than most people are with their children. My dogs are NEVER allowed free roam outside unattended or otherwise. Actually the only time my dogs are outside off leash at home here is when they go to the side yard to go potty. They go out and go then right back in and I supervise the entire time. If I am hunting or training they are kept in the vehicle or on lead at all times unless I am 100% sure no other dogs or people are around. Already been over that.

2nd I wouldn't keep/have an aggressive dog( which is why I only have Lab's ). My dogs are the friendliest you will ever meet. No barking is allowed, no aggression shown is allowed, and absolutely no non playing biting EVER! My dogs are not a threat to anyone. I would be more afraid of YOU walking down my street and what YOU would do to my dogs than what they would do to you. You are far more of a menace and threat than my dogs are.

I DETEST people who let their dogs run free. Especially aggressive ones. I have ZERO tolerance for people like that or their dogs and I have said that here already. That doesn't mean I have to agree with how you are handling this.

I find it laughable because I don't agree with how you are handling this you try and make me out to be like that dog owner even though I have repeatedly said they are wrong. What a crock. You are a real piece of work.

You need another attorney. That one is giving bad advice.

There are battles worth fighting and there are battles you walk away from as no good comes from them. This is one of those battles you walk away from. Nothing good comes of you continuing to go to that street. It is just you refusing to act like an adult. You are going to push it and push it until you do something stupid.

I fully comprehend you and your intentions. I can read and I know what you have posted and then tried to change later. A jury would see it too if they had access to this thread. You keep telling yourself how much better you are and how you are right and everyone else is wrong. Hopefully some inncocent kid or adult isn't hurt by your "irrespnsibility".

Wow.

I am done. Have your final say and then move on. I will just put you on ignore and then I won't see what you post anymore because you are beyond reason and helping.

 

[aquariuscsm]

There was this free roaming white chihuahua where we lived,and he'd always come up our driveway,growl,and show teeth,haha!! I caught him one day and held on to him and pet him and gave him more lovin than he probably ever had,haha! After that,he'd always be waiting for me to come home from work so I'd play with him

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI


I fully comprehend you and your intentions.



You mean...this?
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
If he is fearful of me( calling the state police or suing him) that is just fine, perhaps it will keep him and his unruly dog from interfering with my ability to exercise on my own streets minding my own business as I have for almost four years now until he decided to create a problem the past number of months.

Then maybe you finally get it.

NHHEMI:

Funny how I repeatedly mentioned that I have used these streets for FOUR years WITHOUT ONE single other incident, be it with other people or animals, (as a matter of fact I have great relations with all the other folks along that route) and yet you want to make me out to be the "bad guy". It appears to be you that has the agenda.

You mention that you let your dogs outside of your house to "go potty" without a leash, is that yard fenced in? How do you know that even your "friendly" dogs won't have a moment's lapse and leave your yard and possibly scratch or knock down a child, even IF they are friendly, which I don't doubt.

There are a LOT of folks around here that let t their "friendly" animals loose to run at large, they don't bother me and I like many of them, BUT that doesn't mean they should be running loose. I feel sorry for the dogs because many will either be run over by a car, or be dognapped. I also hope that these animals don't accidentally injure a small child.

 

[cchase]

I have constant problems with off-leash dogs on the trail. Leash laws prevalent yet no one seems to pay attention. Very disappointing. When the dogs are unfriendly/growling the following conversation transpires:

"There's a leash law, you're aware, right?"

"Yeah, sorry!"

"I'm surprised you know, since it's not on a leash."

"I said sorry!"

...

 

[antiqueshell]

@cchase:

I hear you!

I think this is a small part of a much larger problem in our country. It has come to a point where there is almost ZERO consideration for fellow citizens by a LOT of people.

The ONLY thing we have is in fact "the law" to buffer some of this obnoxious and belligerent behavior. You can't use reason, they do NOT care about anyone, EXCEPT themselves. The amount of "rationalization" these dolts use to justify the UNjustifiable is simply unbelievable.