^ROFL!!!
Why would TCW3 smooth out an idle?
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As mentioned above, MMO does make some engines run better. I have a Kawasaki engined mower that won't idle on the local fuel with ethanol. However, it runs fine on Avgas, 100LL. The addition of MMO to ethanol gas makes it run perfectly.
I can only guess as to why. It's possible that better ring seal, or better valve seal is the issue. But, it's not an old, high time mower. And, as I mentioned, it runs fine on Avgas or really, any fuel without ethanol.
It may be that the oil burns and affects the combustion event.
I can only guess as to why. It's possible that better ring seal, or better valve seal is the issue. But, it's not an old, high time mower. And, as I mentioned, it runs fine on Avgas or really, any fuel without ethanol.
It may be that the oil burns and affects the combustion event.
I went through all 50 pages of the above linked discussion last night. It was supposed to show evidence that it helps with piston slap (that I have in Toyota's 2GR-FE). Well, no one did mention that. I found some other forums claiming that though, but nothing concrete.
Since I wasted some much time, here is the summary:
Almost all people said that TCW3 made idle smooth and quieter. Some people mentioned increased MPG, but some later retracted that, so it's inconclusive at least. Some people mentioned exhaust louder and more exhaust smell. A few people who checked plugs or pistons agreed about no deposits whatsoever.
So, I decided to try it myself. Unfortunately, my tank was full, so I decided to add TCW3 regardless just before driving thinking that gas slushing will mix it. WRONG! After 1 mile of driving, the engine hesitated some and idle RPM went down below 500 several times, but recovered. I guess too much oil went through. Later, no difference I could feel or hear whatsoever. I will keep using it for a few tanks and report back. The car is rarely driven though.
The only concern I have right now is whether any unburnt TCW3 can wash to engine oil and dilute/contaminate it.
Since I wasted some much time, here is the summary:
Almost all people said that TCW3 made idle smooth and quieter. Some people mentioned increased MPG, but some later retracted that, so it's inconclusive at least. Some people mentioned exhaust louder and more exhaust smell. A few people who checked plugs or pistons agreed about no deposits whatsoever.
So, I decided to try it myself. Unfortunately, my tank was full, so I decided to add TCW3 regardless just before driving thinking that gas slushing will mix it. WRONG! After 1 mile of driving, the engine hesitated some and idle RPM went down below 500 several times, but recovered. I guess too much oil went through. Later, no difference I could feel or hear whatsoever. I will keep using it for a few tanks and report back. The car is rarely driven though.
The only concern I have right now is whether any unburnt TCW3 can wash to engine oil and dilute/contaminate it.
^I used TC-W3 once and had similar experience, I added it to a full tank and not prior. It seemed to be symptomatic of an overdose, though I only added 2 ounces to 10 gallons?
I've never had MMO cause this and I dose it the same way. After filling up.
I've never had MMO cause this and I dose it the same way. After filling up.
I add TCW3 *always* after I come home from filling the tank up. There is really no way for the TCW3 to get sucked in directly in the fuel line. It is physically NOT possible when you add 2 oz to 10 gallon ratio. Come to think of it you would have more chance of getting pure TCW3 in the gas line when you add it on an empty tank. We are still talking in one in million to five in million type of chances here!
Having said that, I still shake the car after I am done adding TCW3 but logically it makes no difference.
- Vikas
Having said that, I still shake the car after I am done adding TCW3 but logically it makes no difference.
- Vikas
I have also used TWC3 with poor results, my car did not run properly, the engine was smooth, but performance dropped, it would go from powerful acceleration to flat throttle response, occured during the entire tank of TWC3 treated fuel, tried it for several tanks and always had the same result, this was 2oz/10gal and even less, I will not use TWC3 anymore.
I have never had any bad experience with good ol Marvel Mystery Oil, so I will stick with that.
My current fuel add mix is 3oz Redline + 6oz MMO to 20 gal, car runs great.
I have never had any bad experience with good ol Marvel Mystery Oil, so I will stick with that.
My current fuel add mix is 3oz Redline + 6oz MMO to 20 gal, car runs great.
^Just bought some Red Line SI-1, and will be adding half of the bottle to this tank and then dosing the rest in certain amounts w/ MMO.
That makes it about 7.5 ounces-9 gallons of gasoline for my cleaning dose right now, and enough for 2-3 dosings with MMO afterward.
I haven't given up on TCW3, but I don't think in my particular app that I'd prefer to use it with straight regular unleaded. Probably blended with MMO next time.
That makes it about 7.5 ounces-9 gallons of gasoline for my cleaning dose right now, and enough for 2-3 dosings with MMO afterward.
I haven't given up on TCW3, but I don't think in my particular app that I'd prefer to use it with straight regular unleaded. Probably blended with MMO next time.
Tested 400:1 (meant to be 500:1, but messed up the fuel volume calculation) TCW3 in my Prius on a both way hwy trip 2x140 miles, no change in elevation, but 6MPG wind from west.
east->west 46.2 MPG average speed 71 MPH no TCW3.
west->east 50.9 MPG average speed 74 MPH with TCW3.
Cruise set at 78 MPH, but variable slower traffic and speed limits (thus different average speeds).
Holy moly! Previous hwy trips always generated mid 40's MPG figure (unlike city where I average 50-55 MPG).
Not sure how much is the wind effect and how much TCW3 should be credited for the 10% MPG spike. Unlike RAV4, there is a deeper, louder sound from exhaust. This is intriguing to say the least!
east->west 46.2 MPG average speed 71 MPH no TCW3.
west->east 50.9 MPG average speed 74 MPH with TCW3.
Cruise set at 78 MPH, but variable slower traffic and speed limits (thus different average speeds).
Holy moly! Previous hwy trips always generated mid 40's MPG figure (unlike city where I average 50-55 MPG).
Not sure how much is the wind effect and how much TCW3 should be credited for the 10% MPG spike. Unlike RAV4, there is a deeper, louder sound from exhaust. This is intriguing to say the least!
Found interesting story behind TCW3. Not without problems.
Not sure how relevant at the 500:1 dilution, but still:
Quote:
Also, many marine dealers were concerned about the flammability and flash point of out board oils. Since larger engines were now consuming huge amounts of oil they had to stock several hundred cases of oil per season. This amount of oil stored in one location had alerted the fire marshals and insurance companies attention and a solution to this risk was addressed by the NMMA. Higher flash point oil with a flash point over 200 deg. F was what they needed to achieve a category 3B fluid rating, just enough to avoid the hazardous storage and shipping restrictions they were facing with all other two cycle oils. Oil manufacturers were forced to use TC-W3 additives or blends with high flash solvents if they were allowed to keep the NMMA license. The high flash solvents caused all sorts of unburned oil problems in engines, but the insurance carriers were happy.The combination of non-metallic detergents and high flash solvents in the new TC-W 3 oils later caused some severe ring sticking in many engines and Yamaha actually required owners to use a 'ring-free' fuel additive to maintain their warranty, a symptom of being forced by the NMMA to recommend the new oils!
link
Not sure how relevant at the 500:1 dilution, but still:
Quote:
Also, many marine dealers were concerned about the flammability and flash point of out board oils. Since larger engines were now consuming huge amounts of oil they had to stock several hundred cases of oil per season. This amount of oil stored in one location had alerted the fire marshals and insurance companies attention and a solution to this risk was addressed by the NMMA. Higher flash point oil with a flash point over 200 deg. F was what they needed to achieve a category 3B fluid rating, just enough to avoid the hazardous storage and shipping restrictions they were facing with all other two cycle oils. Oil manufacturers were forced to use TC-W3 additives or blends with high flash solvents if they were allowed to keep the NMMA license. The high flash solvents caused all sorts of unburned oil problems in engines, but the insurance carriers were happy.The combination of non-metallic detergents and high flash solvents in the new TC-W 3 oils later caused some severe ring sticking in many engines and Yamaha actually required owners to use a 'ring-free' fuel additive to maintain their warranty, a symptom of being forced by the NMMA to recommend the new oils!
link
On the other hand, the ash-less detergents in TCW3 are organic nitrogen-based, so it is a powerful combustion cleaner and should work great in water cooled engines just like other gasoline detergents. Perhaps TCW3 is the cheapest and most powerful combustion cleaner available?
Quote:
Ashless detergents are used in low temperature applications such as TCW3 oils where the ring land temperature is held below 300 deg/f. These detergents work well in engines where an excess of cooling capacity is available and power valves are not used. Ashless detergents are manufactured form organic nitrogen compounds (Hydrazine) instead of heavy metal compounds; therefore, they produce no ash as they are burned away. This is where the name “Ashless” comes from. Oils containing this type detergent have a characteristic Ammonia odor.
link
Are we creating are own V-power blends by using cheap gas mixed with TCW3?
Quote:
Ashless detergents are used in low temperature applications such as TCW3 oils where the ring land temperature is held below 300 deg/f. These detergents work well in engines where an excess of cooling capacity is available and power valves are not used. Ashless detergents are manufactured form organic nitrogen compounds (Hydrazine) instead of heavy metal compounds; therefore, they produce no ash as they are burned away. This is where the name “Ashless” comes from. Oils containing this type detergent have a characteristic Ammonia odor.
link
Are we creating are own V-power blends by using cheap gas mixed with TCW3?
hah, that's very interesting indeed. Has anyone filled up with Shell's "Nitrogen infused gasoline" while using TCW-3? Nitrogen ontop of Nitrogen...or the possibility of anyways.....sounds very plausible that this could be the "secret ingredient" (likely among many others....) behind Shell's "nitrogen infused" gasoline marketing hype.
Gotta say though, I run either Mobil, Shell, or Chevron (somtimes BP but very rarely....in that order...) and seem to get the best MPG from Shell gasoline myself...heh. Maybe they are "onto something"
I know many "scoffed" at their marketing hype in the beginning, stating that Nitrogen in gas wouldn't "hold" or soemthing....i.e.: would either evaporate, or become unbonded with the fuel.
Gotta say though, I run either Mobil, Shell, or Chevron (somtimes BP but very rarely....in that order...) and seem to get the best MPG from Shell gasoline myself...heh. Maybe they are "onto something"
I know many "scoffed" at their marketing hype in the beginning, stating that Nitrogen in gas wouldn't "hold" or soemthing....i.e.: would either evaporate, or become unbonded with the fuel.
The more I think about it, there could be 3 separate reasons why TCW3 helps with idle and possibly MPG.
1. Nitrogen-based detergents clean combustion chambers and improve octane requirements (this is a slow effect).
2. Minimal UCL helps seal rings and valves in high milage motors improving compression.
3. The gas atomization and flame propagation is somehow changed by low concentration of PIB. We know that high molecular weight PIB is capable of doing that and that TCW-3 contains PIB.
There could be some other effects I guess.
1. Nitrogen-based detergents clean combustion chambers and improve octane requirements (this is a slow effect).
2. Minimal UCL helps seal rings and valves in high milage motors improving compression.
3. The gas atomization and flame propagation is somehow changed by low concentration of PIB. We know that high molecular weight PIB is capable of doing that and that TCW-3 contains PIB.
There could be some other effects I guess.
I found this recent patent: http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&...ncy&f=false
This would support the TCW3 effects as we know TCW3 contains small amounts of PIB or similar polymers.
That also validates the Lucas UCL approach as it's rumored to contain PIB.
It's interesting how these guys used public information to patent something Lucas was doing for years!
This would support the TCW3 effects as we know TCW3 contains small amounts of PIB or similar polymers.
That also validates the Lucas UCL approach as it's rumored to contain PIB.
It's interesting how these guys used public information to patent something Lucas was doing for years!
That is an interesting patent. I especially liked how they used to fill the tank and calculate fuel economy after only adding 2.37 gallon! The guys did not seem to have any organization behind it.
Since my state no longer does tail pipe emission tests, I do not have access to emission results on my own car. Any database that can be used to validate the pre-PIB results? For example, I would like to know typical and max allowed emission for an 97 Corolla as that was their test mule.
- Vikas
Since my state no longer does tail pipe emission tests, I do not have access to emission results on my own car. Any database that can be used to validate the pre-PIB results? For example, I would like to know typical and max allowed emission for an 97 Corolla as that was their test mule.
- Vikas
Update: I burned entire tank in city driving in my prius (takes a while to do it) and the verdict: 55MPG indicated vs 52MPG real. Same result as without TCW3. Will be driving more hwy this week, so I will have more hwy testing.
I also tested how gasoline burns with and without TCW3 and no difference, soot in both cases (maybe even more with TCW3). On the other hand, Viston and Lucas additives (both PIB) gave virtually no soot. That kills my TCW3 effect due to PIB theory.
I also tested how gasoline burns with and without TCW3 and no difference, soot in both cases (maybe even more with TCW3). On the other hand, Viston and Lucas additives (both PIB) gave virtually no soot. That kills my TCW3 effect due to PIB theory.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Update: I burned entire tank in city driving in my prius (takes a while to do it) and the verdict: 55MPG indicated vs 52MPG real. Same result as without TCW3. Will be driving more hwy this week, so I will have more hwy testing.
I also tested how gasoline burns with and without TCW3 and no difference, soot in both cases (maybe even more with TCW3). On the other hand, Viston and Lucas additives (both PIB) gave virtually no soot. That kills my TCW3 effect due to PIB theory.
What brand did you use?
What was your mix ratio?
Did it smooth your idle?
Thanks, Jim
Update: I burned entire tank in city driving in my prius (takes a while to do it) and the verdict: 55MPG indicated vs 52MPG real. Same result as without TCW3. Will be driving more hwy this week, so I will have more hwy testing.
I also tested how gasoline burns with and without TCW3 and no difference, soot in both cases (maybe even more with TCW3). On the other hand, Viston and Lucas additives (both PIB) gave virtually no soot. That kills my TCW3 effect due to PIB theory.
What brand did you use?
What was your mix ratio?
Did it smooth your idle?
Thanks, Jim
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
What brand did you use?
What was your mix ratio?
Did it smooth your idle?
Thanks, Jim
1. penzoil non-synth
2. 1:500
3. No, the car idles very smoothly without, but increased exhaust noise on acceleration
What brand did you use?
What was your mix ratio?
Did it smooth your idle?
Thanks, Jim
1. penzoil non-synth
2. 1:500
3. No, the car idles very smoothly without, but increased exhaust noise on acceleration
Thanks...
Will you continue it's use?
Thanks Again, Jim
Will you continue it's use?
Thanks Again, Jim
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I also tested how gasoline burns with and without TCW3 and no difference, soot in both cases (maybe even more with TCW3). On the other hand, Viston and Lucas additives (both PIB) gave virtually no soot. That kills my TCW3 effect due to PIB theory.
I tested it more this AM, and now I do see a difference: judge for yourself: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2304044#Post2304044
I also tested how gasoline burns with and without TCW3 and no difference, soot in both cases (maybe even more with TCW3). On the other hand, Viston and Lucas additives (both PIB) gave virtually no soot. That kills my TCW3 effect due to PIB theory.
I tested it more this AM, and now I do see a difference: judge for yourself: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2304044#Post2304044
I will continue it for one more week to have more data on hwy MPG. Previous hwy runs showed MPG difference.
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