Why does Mobil 1 do so bad on that Timken test in the video?

[Seth_TJ]

hi,

I was watching Bob's videos on the website and saw him using that wear machine the one where he pushes on the handle. I saw him do tests with Mobil 1 and Schaeffer's oil. I saw the part where he tried to get them to "plate up" and the Mobil 1 didn't do anything at all and left wear scars. It even seized up when he applied pressure. Sounded bad too. The Schaeffer's oil "plated up" quick and sounded much smoother and he couldn't lock up the wheel.

I've been using Mobil 1 in my Jeep TJ since 13k miles a few times with the Tri-Syn and 2 changes now with the SuperSyn and UOA's later I don't really see anything bad.

Just seeing that on the video made me wonder if I was using the right oil. The video might be a little misleading though????

thanks for any input

-Seth

 

[Audi Junkie]

The Timken test does not really reproduce the stressors in an I-C-E. The test itself was developed for gear lubes. Ask not what makes M1 so bad, but what makes the others so good. Probally with extra EP and FM adds you could do this with any oil.

 

[QuadDriver]

well if your motor suddenly developes extremely preloaded roller bearings with no pressurised lube, then switch from M1 asap...otherwise dont worry about it

Or put another way, if you see a video that shows that product 'A' kills athletes foot, will you use it for a sore throat?

 

[sxg6]

can someone link to these vids'?

 

[dickwells]

If I remember correctly, plain household bleach performs very well on the timken test.

 

[Terry]

"Hand metered force" timken testing demonstrates what the HAND wants it too. Bob was particularily honest and repeatable in his demos, the folks proving their products aren't always that honest.

Primarily Extreme Pressure and MIXED type lubrication capability is being demonstrated.

No Hydrodynamic testing which is most of what M1( or any motor oil) will see in normal operations.

Earlier M1 formulas had normal EP capabilty to protect engines used in normal operations.

The Moly in Schaeffers and the new SuperSyn M1 formula makes both those more comparable in EP characteristics. Interesting that Moly was added to M1 soon after this kind of info came out online. Soon after SuperSyn was introduced without the moly.

Chlorine is a good EP add for limiting metal to metal wear. Long term issues are another story. Many of the early "snake oil" adds used this technology in chlorinated paraffins to reduce friction and provide superior EP characteristics over the normal ZDDP add package.

Newer members should read up in the learning areas of BITOG about the basics of lubrication and it will limit the same questions being asked every so often.

 

[QuadDriver]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry:
Chlorine is a good EP add for limiting metal to metal wear. Long term issues are another story.

---

You mean like reacting with the Platinum and Rhodium in the cat?

 

[Terry]

Quad, that would be one of many.

One the finest chemists in the country ( who consults for Dyson Analysis) has much experience in working inhibited chlorinated Paraffins posts here periodically and I wish he would chime in on this thread.

Rick20 are you out there........

 

[Ugly3]

Here is a link to the Videos

Video

 

[ElectroKen]

quote:

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Originally posted by QuadDriver:
Seth: unless automotive technology has changed drastically in the last few minutes, there are no roller bearings in your motor anywhere, except perhaps roller rockers[1].

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Just for the sake of history, my '72 Honda CL350 has 3 roller bearings and 1 ball bearing supporting the crankshaft, and about the same supporting the two transmission shafts. It does just fine on M1 15W-50.

 

[JohnnyG]

quote:

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I know I don't have any detonation problems. Lugging on the other hand well the engine is underpowered and sometimes it happens. I always try to downshift to the next lower gear to avoid it though. I'd rather run 4k RPM than lug the motor along. It is not uncommon for me to run 3.5k or 4k on hills and such to avoid lugging. Lugging just sounds terrible and you can hear the motor rattle, sounds like valvetrain noise but im not sure.

---

Sounds like detonation to me.

 

[Seth_TJ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by QuadDriver:
well if your motor suddenly developes extremely preloaded roller bearings with no pressurised lube, then switch from M1 asap...otherwise dont worry about it

Or put another way, if you see a video that shows that product 'A' kills athletes foot, will you use it for a sore throat?

---

What would cause extreme load on roller bearings like that? How about driving up a hill with a high load on a motor or "lugging" it up the hill in too low of a gear?

Or would it take a oil pressure failure to recreate that condition?

I guess your right though. I've used Mobil 1 since 13k and none of my UOA's show large amounts of wear metals that would be produced if such an incident, like the one in the test video did indeed occur.

Thanks everyone and thanks Terry.

 

[QuadDriver]

Seth: unless automotive technology has changed drastically in the last few minutes, there are no roller bearings in your motor anywhere, except perhaps roller rockers[1]. As long as your oil pump is providing enuf flow at enuf pressure, no bearings will be harmed unless something goes really bad:

1. detonation plays heck on rod bearings
2. lugging plays heck on the thrust side of the cylinder wall

Notes:

[1]: Roller fulcrum rockers replace rail or 'ball socket' type in an area where the oil is incidental at best and they just dont fail - so I would not be concerned

 

[Seth_TJ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by QuadDriver:
Seth: unless automotive technology has changed drastically in the last few minutes, there are no roller bearings in your motor anywhere, except perhaps roller rockers[1]. As long as your oil pump is providing enuf flow at enuf pressure, no bearings will be harmed unless something goes really bad:

1. detonation plays heck on rod bearings
2. lugging plays heck on the thrust side of the cylinder wall

Notes:

[1]: Roller fulcrum rockers replace rail or 'ball socket' type in an area where the oil is incidental at best and they just dont fail - so I would not be concerned

---

I know I don't have any detonation problems. Lugging on the other hand well the engine is underpowered and sometimes it happens. I always try to downshift to the next lower gear to avoid it though. I'd rather run 4k RPM than lug the motor along. It is not uncommon for me to run 3.5k or 4k on hills and such to avoid lugging. Lugging just sounds terrible and you can hear the motor rattle, sounds like valvetrain noise but im not sure.


I'm really seeing how this test doesn't mean a lot to me now though.

I have been looking at other oils such as Delvac 1, Amsoil, and Redline but I think Mobil 1 10w30 is still the right choice for my Jeep. I could go with a thicker oil like a 40w but i'm afraid it will kill my power and gas mileage which is bad already.

I've also been looking at the Mobil 1 SUV/Truck oil. I'm not sure how much better it would be for me though