Why does Ford recommend 5w20 and not 0w20?

[tamedcowboy]

Thank you everyone for your replies to my first post about my Milan. You input got me wondering why does Ford recommend 5w20 and not 0w20? 0w20 would have better flow, cold pouring, and fuel economy. Seems a no-brainer. But yet they spent all that money developing 5w20. Is there a logical reason why Ford went with 5w over 0w?

 

[tig1]

Ford doesn't develope the oil. If Ford called for 0-20 then that would be a full syn oil unlike the 5-20 MC which is a blend. Cost is more.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

M1 0w-20 meets the Ford spec for 5w-20 ... at least in my Focus.

 

[Danh]

Only Ford knows for sure, but I'd guess:
1) it doesn't make that much of an economy difference
2) most cars don't operate in cold enough conditions to really need a 0w/xx oil
3) 0w/20s are generally full syns and Ford customers may balk at the price premium at oil change time, especially as Ford's current spec allows conventional oils

Mobil1 makes the most objective fuel economy claim for 0w/20 oils in its AFE line, suggesting an 0w/20 can generate up to a 2% improvement compared to viscosities most commonly used. To me this means a full syn 0w/20 may get 2% (or 1% or 0%) better economy than a conventional 5w/30. So probably not noticeable by consumers.

 

[volk06]

When ford started switching in the early 2000s, there werent hardly any 0w20s on the market, heck there still isn't too many that are readily available on store shelves. 5w20 is more available at a lower cost to most people. Unless your strictly a short tripper in cold tempratures, there is not much difference between 0w and 5w20 in engine protection.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: volk06
When ford started switching in the early 2000s, there werent hardly any 0w20s on the market, heck there still isn't too many that are readily available on store shelves. 5w20 is more available at a lower cost to most people. Unless your strictly a short tripper in cold tempratures, there is not much difference between 0w and 5w20 in engine protection.



This.

On some of the ecoboosts though, you will see a 0w...

 

[Zako2]

My guess is that Ford does not want to sadden its customers by requiring a more expensive, harder to find, synthetic motor oil when there is no need for that. They give you a Ford spec for a 20 grade oil. If you wish, you can use a conventional or synthetic 5W20, or a 0W20 if that works best for you.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Ford doesn't develope the oil. If Ford called for 0-20 then that would be a full syn oil unlike the 5-20 MC which is a blend. Cost is more.

That's partly right, and ....

Originally Posted By: volk06
When ford started switching in the early 2000s, there werent hardly any 0w20s on the market, heck there still isn't too many that are readily available on store shelves. 5w20 is more available at a lower cost to most people.

that is correct as well.

Remember a 5W-20 is basically a 5W-30 with less VIIs with most formulators so it wasn't anymore expensive to make.

Mobil 1 was the first to market a 0W-20 as a synthetic up-grade where a 5W-20 was specified for Ford, Honda, Toyota etc circa 2002 and it didn't sell probably because everybody thought 0W meant zero viscosity; heck even motorhead Jay Leno used to think so. Mobil had to slap a red sticker on existing bottles of M1 0W-20 (they also had a 0W-30 that didn't sell any better) stating it was suitable for 5W-20 applications like Ford, Honda etc but it didn't help and they eventually withdrew both their 0W-20 and 0W-30 from the market place. They then offered a M1 5W-20 which did sell.

Fast forward to 2009 and Toyota and Honda started specifying the 0W-20 grade and Mobil reintroduced the withdrawn 0W-20 and 0W-30 oils with new marketing as Advanced Fuel Economy oil grades and it worked.
But the 0W-20 oils that Toyota and Honda offered were different because they had this new 200+ viscosity index making them very light oils, much lighter than the 5W-20 grade even on start-up at room temperature and to certain extent at normal operating temp's as well. They were also lighter than M1 AFE 0W-20 at none extreme cold temp's but not at -40 degrees M1 had no peers.

So that's the history and also why you cannot automatically run a Japanese OEM 0W-20 in a 5W-20 application because those 0W-20s are lighter at normal operating temp's than the 5W-20 that Ford specifies.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: CATERTHAM


Remember a 5W-20 is basically a 5W-30 with less VIIs with most formulators so it wasn't anymore expensive to make.

Mobil 1 was the first to market a 0W-20 as a synthetic up-grade where a 5W-20 was specified for Ford, Honda, Toyota etc circa 2002 and it didn't sell probably because everybody thought 0W meant zero viscosity; heck even motorhead Jay Leno used to think so. Mobil had to slap a red sticker on existing bottles of M1 0W-20 (they also had a 0W-30 that didn't sell any better) stating it was suitable for 5W-20 applications like Ford, Honda etc but it didn't help and they eventually withdrew both their 0W-20 and 0W-30 from the market place. They then offered a M1 5W-20 which did sell.

Fast forward to 2009 and Toyota and Honda started specifying the 0W-20 grade and Mobil reintroduced the withdrawn 0W-20 and 0W-30 oils with new marketing as Advanced Fuel Economy oil grades and it worked.
But the 0W-20 oils that Toyota and Honda offered were different because they had this new 200+ viscosity index making them very light oils, much lighter than the 5W-20 grade even on start-up at room temperature and to certain extent at normal operating temp's as well. They were also lighter than M1 AFE 0W-20 at none extreme cold temp's but not at -40 degrees M1 had no peers.

So that's the history and also why you cannot automatically run a Japanese OEM 0W-20 in a 5W-20 application because those 0W-20s are lighter at normal operating temp's than the 5W-20 that Ford specifies.



What? Do you believe what you wrote above?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Cup of Joe
What? Do you believe what you wrote above?


In summary

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Ford doesn't develope the oil. If Ford called for 0-20 then that would be a full syn oil unlike the 5-20 MC which is a blend. Cost is more.


From what I understand, Ford does indeed formulate the oil and then pays ConocoPhillips to blend it, package it, and distribute it for them. Ford owns the rights to the specific Motorcraft formulation, not conoco.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: tig1
Ford doesn't develope the oil. If Ford called for 0-20 then that would be a full syn oil unlike the 5-20 MC which is a blend. Cost is more.


From what I understand, Ford does indeed formulate the oil and then pays ConocoPhillips to blend it, package it, and distribute it for them. Ford owns the rights to the specific Motorcraft formulation, not conoco.


To formulate the oil, doesn't that mean they are in the oil business and actually produce the product? Ford has a spec they want, but you will have to show me where Ford makes engine oil.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: tig1

To formulate the oil, doesn't that mean they are in the oil business and actually produce the product?


No.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Cup of Joe
Originally Posted By: CATERTHAM


Remember a 5W-20 is basically a 5W-30 with less VIIs with most formulators so it wasn't anymore expensive to make.

Mobil 1 was the first to market a 0W-20 as a synthetic up-grade where a 5W-20 was specified for Ford, Honda, Toyota etc circa 2002 and it didn't sell probably because everybody thought 0W meant zero viscosity; heck even motorhead Jay Leno used to think so. Mobil had to slap a red sticker on existing bottles of M1 0W-20 (they also had a 0W-30 that didn't sell any better) stating it was suitable for 5W-20 applications like Ford, Honda etc but it didn't help and they eventually withdrew both their 0W-20 and 0W-30 from the market place. They then offered a M1 5W-20 which did sell.

Fast forward to 2009 and Toyota and Honda started specifying the 0W-20 grade and Mobil reintroduced the withdrawn 0W-20 and 0W-30 oils with new marketing as Advanced Fuel Economy oil grades and it worked.
But the 0W-20 oils that Toyota and Honda offered were different because they had this new 200+ viscosity index making them very light oils, much lighter than the 5W-20 grade even on start-up at room temperature and to certain extent at normal operating temp's as well. They were also lighter than M1 AFE 0W-20 at none extreme cold temp's but not at -40 degrees M1 had no peers.

So that's the history and also why you cannot automatically run a Japanese OEM 0W-20 in a 5W-20 application because those 0W-20s are lighter at normal operating temp's than the 5W-20 that Ford specifies.



What? Do you believe what you wrote above?

It sounds like I've touched on some incorrect assumptions you hold dear.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: tig1
Ford doesn't develope the oil. If Ford called for 0-20 then that would be a full syn oil unlike the 5-20 MC which is a blend. Cost is more.


From what I understand, Ford does indeed formulate the oil and then pays ConocoPhillips to blend it, package it, and distribute it for them. Ford owns the rights to the specific Motorcraft formulation, not conoco.


Ford does not forumlate the oil. Ford creates specs and criteria that an oil has to meet and then finds a company that can make an oil to those specs for the best price. This is why Castrol makes fords oil in Europe, XOM makes MC oil in Canada, and why COP makes MC in the USA.

This is also why if you take a VOA of Trop Artic, 76 and MC, they will be identical.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Cup of Joe
What? Do you believe what you wrote above?


In summary

Nice chart! No wonder Ford stays with MC 5w20. Here's another..my mom's MKZ is the only car in the family thats not burning oil. None! Glad I stayed with MC on her car.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: tig1
Ford doesn't develope the oil. If Ford called for 0-20 then that would be a full syn oil unlike the 5-20 MC which is a blend. Cost is more.


From what I understand, Ford does indeed formulate the oil and then pays ConocoPhillips to blend it, package it, and distribute it for them. Ford owns the rights to the specific Motorcraft formulation, not conoco.


Ford does not forumlate the oil. Ford creates specs and criteria that an oil has to meet and then finds a company that can make an oil to those specs for the best price. This is why Castrol makes fords oil in Europe, XOM makes MC oil in Canada, and why COP makes MC in the USA.

This is also why if you take a VOA of Trop Artic, 76 and MC, they will be identical.


As it has already covered, those oils are not the same.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: tig1
Ford doesn't develope the oil. If Ford called for 0-20 then that would be a full syn oil unlike the 5-20 MC which is a blend. Cost is more.


From what I understand, Ford does indeed formulate the oil and then pays ConocoPhillips to blend it, package it, and distribute it for them. Ford owns the rights to the specific Motorcraft formulation, not conoco.


Ford does not forumlate the oil. Ford creates specs and criteria that an oil has to meet and then finds a company that can make an oil to those specs for the best price. This is why Castrol makes fords oil in Europe, XOM makes MC oil in Canada, and why COP makes MC in the USA.

This is also why if you take a VOA of Trop Artic, 76 and MC, they will be identical.


As it has already covered, those oils are not the same.


Then you might be surprised to know the additive packages are the same.

 

[tamedcowboy]

Thanks for the responses guys. Yeah, I know Ford develops the requirements and contracts out a supplier to make Motorcraft motor oil to Ford specifications, I was just curious why Ford chose 5w20, and based on your replies it probably has to do with cost. Also based on your replies, me living in Texas will probably make 5w20 a perfectly acceptable choice. I may try the Kendall oil though. Looks pretty good.

 

[hardcore302]

Higher cost to the average (read: not into oil and cars and such) consumer that doesn't even out with the benefits to such consumers.

Less availability.

These consumers are very comfortable and used to seeing a 5 or a 10 come before the W.