Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil?

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Originally Posted By: Stelth

Well, Safety-Kleen is already pretty big, but I think I agree with your sentiment that more re-refined oils would be a good thing. If the figure of 30% of waste oil being dumped incorrectly is right, that would indicate that 70% is being disposed of correctly, which is a pretty good start. There are awareness programs going on right now that I hope will increase that percentage. Many cities have programs to get people to dispose of hazardous waste responsibly, and I think it's having an impact.

I used to buy 76 Firebird LD oil from Kragen. That was probably 20 years ago, and it was the only re-refined oil I knew of at the time. Now it falls under the Conoco-Phillips umbrella and is listed as a part-synthetic, part-re-refined oil. I think it's mostly sold to municipalities that often have regulations requiring them to use re-refined oils in their fleets. I haven't seen it on a shelf in a long time.


If 70% is getting recycled properly (By Valvoline?
grin2.gif
and then we get that same oil FAR next month?) that sure is a good start but the leftover 30% is still a TON of oil not only being trashed incorrectly but think of the side effects of dumping so much nasty oil into the drain / ground. I don't know about you, but I want to swim in a clean river / lake. I also don't want my well based sprinkler system to be spraying used oil (which only did 3,000 miles, BTW) all over my lawn where my kids later roll around with the dog... Its sickening, to be honest with you.
 
I'm guessing that it is technically easier to rerefine used oil than crude oil. The reason it isn't done on a large scale may be for a number of reasons.

- The waste stream of used oil presently directs it to bunker fuel or other heating methods.
- There isn't enough used oil in the process stream to make it economical to compete with crude oil. Used oil needs to be collected and handled many times over before it makes its way to the refiner, whereas crude oil is delivered in huge loads from oil tanker ships or big pipelines.
- Prior attempts in rerefining used oil didn't have a target of high quality oil to blow away the competition.

Basically, the economics may not be all there to make rerefining easy or competitive with the conventional motor oil production methods, regardless of the technical aspects of rerefining.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: Stelth

Well, Safety-Kleen is already pretty big, but I think I agree with your sentiment that more re-refined oils would be a good thing. If the figure of 30% of waste oil being dumped incorrectly is right, that would indicate that 70% is being disposed of correctly, which is a pretty good start. There are awareness programs going on right now that I hope will increase that percentage. Many cities have programs to get people to dispose of hazardous waste responsibly, and I think it's having an impact.

I used to buy 76 Firebird LD oil from Kragen. That was probably 20 years ago, and it was the only re-refined oil I knew of at the time. Now it falls under the Conoco-Phillips umbrella and is listed as a part-synthetic, part-re-refined oil. I think it's mostly sold to municipalities that often have regulations requiring them to use re-refined oils in their fleets. I haven't seen it on a shelf in a long time.


If 70% is getting recycled properly (By Valvoline?
grin2.gif
and then we get that same oil FAR next month?) that sure is a good start but the leftover 30% is still a TON of oil not only being trashed incorrectly but think of the side effects of dumping so much nasty oil into the drain / ground. I don't know about you, but I want to swim in a clean river / lake. I also don't want my well based sprinkler system to be spraying used oil (which only did 3,000 miles, BTW) all over my lawn where my kids later roll around with the dog... Its sickening, to be honest with you.


I, too, would like to see all oil disposed of properly. I'm just saying that I think a lot of progress has been made, even though there's definitely room for improvement. I fish in the ocean, and I sure don't want to see used oil showing up there, and filters bobbing along in the surf.

It doesn't bother me that a lot (I don't know how much) used oil is converted into bunker fuel. We need that, too, and it seems that that usage would fit the reduce/reuse/recycle mantra.

BTW, Artem, are you a bass player?
 
Originally Posted By: shell_user
I am gonna side with ARTEM because he knows what he is talking about. I did have a packet of info Safety Kleen gave my boss and all of us mechanics that said like 30% I believe was dumped improperly and illegally. Its probably more nowadays. I take the friends, family's oil and filters to my work where it is recycled as OFR(Oil filter recyclers out of Illinois recycle the oil filters or melt them down for steel ). So YEAH, I do have a darn good idea of how stupid people are and do dumb things like pollute waterways and areas. Some idiots around here still dump their oils, coolant in their driveways also. And if you stop and think; no we are not making good use with those old motor oils, etc as we burn so much of it in waste oil heaters or turn it into heating oil and who knows where the rest goes; probably to third world countries where god knows what they will and do with it.

just my thoughts
MORE is being recycled today as pick up points, like my local transfer station multiply. If you want to lie awake nights, how are we doing on tires.
 
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LOL, very good point and I vividly remember the DIRTY JOBS where they showed ya what they do with the tires.
 
Originally Posted By: Stelth
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: Stelth

Well, Safety-Kleen is already pretty big, but I think I agree with your sentiment that more re-refined oils would be a good thing. If the figure of 30% of waste oil being dumped incorrectly is right, that would indicate that 70% is being disposed of correctly, which is a pretty good start. There are awareness programs going on right now that I hope will increase that percentage. Many cities have programs to get people to dispose of hazardous waste responsibly, and I think it's having an impact.

I used to buy 76 Firebird LD oil from Kragen. That was probably 20 years ago, and it was the only re-refined oil I knew of at the time. Now it falls under the Conoco-Phillips umbrella and is listed as a part-synthetic, part-re-refined oil. I think it's mostly sold to municipalities that often have regulations requiring them to use re-refined oils in their fleets. I haven't seen it on a shelf in a long time.


If 70% is getting recycled properly (By Valvoline?
grin2.gif
and then we get that same oil FAR next month?) that sure is a good start but the leftover 30% is still a TON of oil not only being trashed incorrectly but think of the side effects of dumping so much nasty oil into the drain / ground. I don't know about you, but I want to swim in a clean river / lake. I also don't want my well based sprinkler system to be spraying used oil (which only did 3,000 miles, BTW) all over my lawn where my kids later roll around with the dog... Its sickening, to be honest with you.


I, too, would like to see all oil disposed of properly. I'm just saying that I think a lot of progress has been made, even though there's definitely room for improvement. I fish in the ocean, and I sure don't want to see used oil showing up there, and filters bobbing along in the surf.

It doesn't bother me that a lot (I don't know how much) used oil is converted into bunker fuel. We need that, too, and it seems that that usage would fit the reduce/reuse/recycle mantra.

BTW, Artem, are you a bass player?


I'm a drummer. Why?
 
Originally Posted By: Artem


I'm a drummer. Why?


I frequent some bass-player-specific websites, and I remember an Artem from one of them.
 
I think a lot of recycling or rerefining is already done, just not in the sight of public view.

If they sell the rerefined base oil to a blender, the blender may not advertise it as rerefined oil like Valvoline or Safety Kleen does.

Also if using the slightly cleaned up (i.e. filtered or distilled) used engine oil as fuel oil can replace demand for new fuel oil, and the new fuel oil could have been converted into virgin base oil supply, this IMO is just as good, if not better, than hauling used engine oil around to rerefine and then haul them around again as new engine oil.

As long as we are not wasting or polluting, it is good.
 
The biggest problem I see , what defines rerefined in the actual end product.
Is it 100% rerefined with a new additive pack , or is it 50% virgin oil remaining being rerefined , or will it be City Star rerefined oil with 1/10 a gallon actual refined oil an the remainder only filtered used oil.
Unless and until API sets a standard or the SAE ,we will see oils defined by the seller or blenders as rerefined with qualities all over the spectrum.
Please , before the hating begins , I am not opposed to rerefined oils.
 
On the rare freak occasion you can find an old oil burning power plant in use, it's probably also burning recycled oil. It's way better than some of the stuff they used to burn.
 
I have used Safety-Kleen's EcoPower that is available here in Nepean on Bentley Ave. I have used EcoPower in various vehicles (03 Impala 3800, 03 Corolla, 05 TSX, etc, etc, etc) as well as several smaller engines such as 6.5 and 10.5 Tecumseh's, 25.2 V-Twins and 63.8tq (21.3hp) diesels that I backwood about with, and they all run on EcoPower! FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS!
Around here, you can actually bring in your used oil to Safety-Kleen and you can guarantee it will used as a recycled oil for either lubrication purposes or for EcoPower. But, I do have a waste oil burner for the shop, so I don't really go that route, but I do have a filtering system that I have inspected by them regularly.
 
Originally Posted By: skellyman
The biggest problem I see , what defines rerefined in the actual end product.
Is it 100% rerefined with a new additive pack , or is it 50% virgin oil remaining being rerefined , or will it be City Star rerefined oil with 1/10 a gallon actual refined oil an the remainder only filtered used oil.
Unless and until API sets a standard or the SAE ,we will see oils defined by the seller or blenders as rerefined with qualities all over the spectrum.
Please , before the hating begins , I am not opposed to rerefined oils.


I'm not so sure. There are already standards that Auto Club, City Star, et. al. are not adhering to. If Valvoline says that Nextgen is 50% re-refined, I believe them. They don't really have a reason to lie, since you can buy VWB if you don't trust Nextgen. If Safety-Kleen says they have a 100% re-refined SN oil, I believe them as well. I don't think these companies are jerking us around, and I think the UOA's and VOA's here and on PQIA bear this out. Valvoline buys base oil from a supplier. I'm sure they test all their base oils to make sure that they are of the quality that they are supposed to be, whether virgin or re-refined.

Now, if you go down to your local liquor store, and grab a bottle of Joe's Really Great Motor Oil, well, who knows?
 
Originally Posted By: skellyman
The biggest problem I see , what defines rerefined in the actual end product.
Is it 100% rerefined with a new additive pack , or is it 50% virgin oil remaining being rerefined , or will it be City Star rerefined oil with 1/10 a gallon actual refined oil an the remainder only filtered used oil.
Unless and until API sets a standard or the SAE ,we will see oils defined by the seller or blenders as rerefined with qualities all over the spectrum.
Please , before the hating begins , I am not opposed to rerefined oils.


For NextGen, it is about 50% rerefined oil (not filtered, rerefined), and about 50% refined crude. After the base oils are mixed, the proper additive package is blended in under the proper temperature to insure complete mixing.

Disregard City Star and other outliers in the context of rerefined oils, as these oils are pure junk and doubtful as to whether or not they are anything more than filtered, and maybe not even filtered oils. Whoever is mixing these oils and distributing them should be thoroughly investigated, and word is, the ILMA is doing just that.

Rerefined oils are GroupII, II+ and are as good as refined crude. Products like NextGen have to run under the same ASTM and API testing protocols as other motor oils.
 
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Stigma is whats killing it right now.

in 10 years, if people use it an realize its jsut as good as the original crude they been putting in, it will change.

educating people and getting the word out will help the rerefining of oil. gonna be a hurdle getting the redneckologists too realize it, but its just as good for our vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
Stigma is whats killing it right now.

in 10 years, if people use it an realize its jsut as good as the original crude they been putting in, it will change.

educating people and getting the word out will help the rerefining of oil. gonna be a hurdle getting the redneckologists too realize it, but its just as good for our vehicles.
How quickly the know it all insults anyone who doesn't agree.
 
I remember re-refined oil back in the 80s, I think it was called Environ, made by BP. I guess it didn't sell well.

People accept that steel and plastic can be recycled, even waste water too! The main problem is, virgin oil is so cheap.
 
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