What is my Honda Pilot engine's REAL problem?

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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: dave1251
2.0 TBN is not used up.

Fine, what is used up in your opinion?
I think Blackstone considers 1.0 to be the bottom limit.
 
I realize my 2012 Acura 3.7L engine is a cousin of the Honda engine and does not have VCM, but it does appear that Honda/Acura has changed the algorithm for the maintenance minder. With my 2008 Honda Accord V6 VCM engine I would routinely go 7800 -8000 miles before the MM would reach 15%. So far for the first two changes on the Acura 5200 miles to 15%.

My driving pattern has not changed.
 
The OLM is only for regular service. Your manual may state 6 months 5,000 miles in your climate, you are by default classified as severe service I am guessing. (Check your manual to see for sure).

Even on highway miles in your climate, fuel dilution, idling, condensation, and oil consumption would beat up even a synthetic pretty bad at 10,000 miles. A conventional out of a bulk fill drum would struggle to do 5,000 miles.

I doubt you'd get any help from Honda. They'll hide behind the owner's manual, and in this case I'd agree with them. I can't comprehend the tar and sludge they must have found after 10,000 mile bulk fill dino oil...
 
Originally Posted By: lemonade
my Odyseey usually call for an oil change around 6-7K, do you guys think I can safely stick to the van's OLM with 6-7K OCI with QSUD/ PP/ PU ?

2006 was before VCM, wasn't it? Have you done any UOAs? There's a good chance this interval is OK for your engine depending on your driving style and if it's non-VCM but I'd confirm that with a UOA or two. Be certain that you check your oil level regularly. Many of the Ody problems have resulted from oil consumption and owners who never look under the hood discovering the sump is half empty or worse by OC time.
 
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: dave1251
2.0 TBN is not used up.

Fine, what is used up in your opinion?
I think Blackstone considers 1.0 to be the bottom limit.

I'm well aware of Blackstone's frequently stated opinion about 1.0 being the bottom of useful TBN range. I like to have a bit more cushion than that. Perhaps in my original comment I should have described 2.0 as "pretty well" used up.
 
Originally Posted By: MajorCavalry
I realize my 2012 Acura 3.7L engine is a cousin of the Honda engine and does not have VCM, but it does appear that Honda/Acura has changed the algorithm for the maintenance minder. With my 2008 Honda Accord V6 VCM engine I would routinely go 7800 -8000 miles before the MM would reach 15%. So far for the first two changes on the Acura 5200 miles to 15%.

My driving pattern has not changed.

That's a very good observation. As I said, my 2011 was at 10% after 6300. This was 95% city driving.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: lemonade
my Odyseey usually call for an oil change around 6-7K, do you guys think I can safely stick to the van's OLM with 6-7K OCI with QSUD/ PP/ PU ?

2006 was before VCM, wasn't it? Have you done any UOAs? There's a good chance this interval is OK for your engine depending on your driving style and if it's non-VCM but I'd confirm that with a UOA or two. Be certain that you check your oil level regularly. Many of the Ody problems have resulted from oil consumption and owners who never look under the hood discovering the sump is half empty or worse by OC time.


My Odyssey has VCM, Honda started implementing VCM on 05 model, anyway... I have never done any UOA yet, I do check oil consumption every now and then, manual call for 4.5 qt, i always put in 5 qt, when i drain it, about 4 qt comes out, I'm guessing 1 qt of consumption in 6000-7000 miles is very reasonable right?
I bought some cheap Mobil Super 5000 when they had the deal for $10 5qt with filter, was planning to use it on the van, and keep my TL on synthetic diet. Now that everyone here's saying I need to shorten OCI and use synthetic for the Honda VCM disregarding what the OLM suggest, what a waste for my cheap dino...
I really love the VCM thing, get me about 24-25 mpg on the freeway, consider than van is more than 4000 lb and has lots of aero drag, i think this is a reasonable mpg, too bad this technology has some other draw back.
 
A TBN reading is meaningless in regards to sludge if you are continuously topping up when a car uses oil.

That is why when people do UOAs they don't like to add any oil at any point before they mail it in to get the true condition of the oil. Top ups point to a significant problem all by themselves.

If your car burns oil or consumes it, try changing for a different brand but don't change weights to see if you can stop it.

My Honda Fit, new, would use half a litre of Pennzoil Ultra but not burn a drop when I used QSUD.

The problem with the OP and not to stray too far from the topic is just a lack of oil changes. Sure, the service advisor should have known better. What about the guy dropping the oil?

If I was dropping the oil for 10,000 mile intervals on dino I would have gone straight to the service advisor with it.... You would probably see black jelly drop out of the oil pan. Shorter OCIs or Full Syn would have been strongly recommended.

Contrary to popular belief, a mechanic doesn't want to knowingly let you destroy a car... Word of mouth and honesty are the only things that keep you in business. Bad word of mouth is heard by ten people, but good word of mouth rarely makes it to one person.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken
Contrary to popular belief, a mechanic doesn't want to knowingly let you destroy a car... Word of mouth and honesty are the only things that keep you in business. Bad word of mouth is heard by ten people, but good word of mouth rarely makes it to one person.

If they tell you how to keep it from breaking, they will be out of business. They may answer if asked, but they wont offer anything on their own. The word of mouth you refer to is based on repair cost and quality. Shops don't make oil decisions based on whats best for the engine, they base it on bulk oil costs and oil change profits. None of this is malicious, just business.
 
Originally Posted By: lemonade
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: lemonade
my Odyseey usually call for an oil change around 6-7K, do you guys think I can safely stick to the van's OLM with 6-7K OCI with QSUD/ PP/ PU ?

2006 was before VCM, wasn't it? Have you done any UOAs? There's a good chance this interval is OK for your engine depending on your driving style and if it's non-VCM but I'd confirm that with a UOA or two. Be certain that you check your oil level regularly. Many of the Ody problems have resulted from oil consumption and owners who never look under the hood discovering the sump is half empty or worse by OC time.


My Odyssey has VCM, Honda started implementing VCM on 05 model, anyway... I have never done any UOA yet, I do check oil consumption every now and then, manual call for 4.5 qt, i always put in 5 qt, when i drain it, about 4 qt comes out, I'm guessing 1 qt of consumption in 6000-7000 miles is very reasonable right?
I bought some cheap Mobil Super 5000 when they had the deal for $10 5qt with filter, was planning to use it on the van, and keep my TL on synthetic diet. Now that everyone here's saying I need to shorten OCI and use synthetic for the Honda VCM disregarding what the OLM suggest, what a waste for my cheap dino...
I really love the VCM thing, get me about 24-25 mpg on the freeway, consider than van is more than 4000 lb and has lots of aero drag, i think this is a reasonable mpg, too bad this technology has some other draw back.


We have an 06 Odssey EX-L, with VCM. First change was at something like 5K miles to an late 1990's bottle of Mobil1 5w-30. After that Mobil1 0w-20. Last 2 oil changes were with Castrol Edge 5w-20. OCI has been in the 7000-8000 mile range, every 6 months. Driving is 80/20 local/highway.

Engine is spotless.
 
Well, the OP is sure getting his bad word of mouth heard posting on Bitog... If I was the place that serviced the car and got called out I'd be having nightmares right now lol.

Oil changes are the simplest thing anyone can do on a car, and oddly, it is the most important. So props to this oil site.

If I was the tech that dropped the oil and didn't say anything I'd feel bad for this guys troubles. Who needs that. I mean, at least honk if there is a cat in the middle of the road. Good karma.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: dave1251
2.0 TBN is not used up.

Fine, what is used up in your opinion?
I think Blackstone considers 1.0 to be the bottom limit.

I'm well aware of Blackstone's frequently stated opinion about 1.0 being the bottom of useful TBN range. I like to have a bit more cushion than that. Perhaps in my original comment I should have described 2.0 as "pretty well" used up.


How did you come to that conclusion that 1.0 TBN is not enough of a safety net?
 
Originally Posted By: Falken
Well, the OP is sure getting his bad word of mouth heard posting on Bitog... If I was the place that serviced the car and got called out I'd be having nightmares right now lol.

Oil changes are the simplest thing anyone can do on a car, and oddly, it is the most important. So props to this oil site.

If I was the tech that dropped the oil and didn't say anything I'd feel bad for this guys troubles. Who needs that. I mean, at least honk if there is a cat in the middle of the road. Good karma.


Seriously. This thread has 68k views, this better get Honda's attention.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: hypervish


Seriously. This thread has 68k views, this better get Honda's attention.


Doubt it. Prob 10 members have viewed it at least 1000 times each. The other 20-30 have viewed it a hundred times.

Honda has millions of these engines out there. If it was a BIG issue they be concerned. Here and there while troubling for the person it happens to its not on Honda's radar until it shows up much more.

Take care, Bill
 
Knowing the issue at hand, would the Sequence IIIG test results be the one of interest for such conditions? The issue appear to be about high temp deposits on the VCM shut-down side, while the Seq IIIG test covers high temp piston deposits and cam lobes wear.

What I am trying to get at, is how good my chances are if I use PU 5w-20 and change when the OLM reaches 15%, so that I would not miss any OLM service codes if I reset earlier than 15%.
 
Change the oil at 50% on the MM but don't reset it. Do it again when the MM gets to 10% and you won't miss the secondary codes
 
Originally Posted By: SilverGGA
. . . The issue appear to be about high temp deposits on the VCM shut-down side, while the Seq IIIG test covers high temp piston deposits and cam lobes wear.

What I am trying to get at, is how good my chances are if I . . . change when the OLM reaches 15%, so that I would not miss any OLM service codes if I reset earlier than 15%.

Actually, the sludging is probably a consequence of lower temps on the shut-down side. But, in any case, I agree with dwgwater:
Quote:
Change the oil at 50% on the MM but don't reset it. Do it again when the MM gets to 10% and you won't miss the secondary codes
 
Originally Posted By: dwgwater
Change the oil at 50% on the MM but don't reset it. Do it again when the MM gets to 10% and you won't miss the secondary codes


You won't miss them now. When you hold down the button to reset it, the current codes show up. Just make a note of them and then press the button again to reset it. That's what I've been doing.
 
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