Awful accident
For obvious reasons the larger ship has right of way.
For obvious reasons the larger ship has right of way.
USS Fitzgerald collision speculation
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Originally Posted By: RichardS
I don't have a good frame of reference, so I did a little googling.
It's about 1.41 football fields in length.
That's a seriously large merchant ship to outsize the U.S.S. Fitzgerald!
maybe a supertanker of some sort?
I hope they are able to account for all the sailors, and there is no loss of life from either ship.
A typical Panamax (able to transit the original Panama Canal locks) container ship is ~1000' long, 100' wide, and draws about 40' of water loaded, can carry 52,000 tons of cargo. (Newer Panamax ships are much larger.)
ACX Crystal is smaller, but still huge. (Note: she isn't 29,000 tons-that is how much cargo she can carry!)
I don't have a good frame of reference, so I did a little googling.
It's about 1.41 football fields in length.
That's a seriously large merchant ship to outsize the U.S.S. Fitzgerald!
maybe a supertanker of some sort?
I hope they are able to account for all the sailors, and there is no loss of life from either ship.
A typical Panamax (able to transit the original Panama Canal locks) container ship is ~1000' long, 100' wide, and draws about 40' of water loaded, can carry 52,000 tons of cargo. (Newer Panamax ships are much larger.)
ACX Crystal is smaller, but still huge. (Note: she isn't 29,000 tons-that is how much cargo she can carry!)
Like most ships of that type, the ACX Crystal has a "bulbous bow" so there is likely a massive amount of damage below the water line that we're not seeing in the pictures.
Here's a photo of it sitting higher in the water where you can see the protrusion of the bulbous bow.
Here's a photo of it sitting higher in the water where you can see the protrusion of the bulbous bow.
I don't have the facts. Sure seems like incompetence though
With radar and other navigation and communication and navigation lighting
how can this happen? How about if this was a ship coming at the destroyer on purpose to do damage, why didn't the destroyer take evasive action?
Pray there was no loss of life.
how can this happen? How about if this was a ship coming at the destroyer on purpose to do damage, why didn't the destroyer take evasive action?
Pray there was no loss of life.
I see a picture of damaged ACX Crystal on Reuters. Port side of upper bow is damaged.
ACX Crystal can weigh up to 70,000tons when fully loaded. She can carry 2800 containers. I think Fitzgerald is one tough boat! Crystal has a bulbous hull that could have struck Fitzgerald below the water line.
to donald
not sure if serious or just naive?
people are not perfect and the us military and navy are not exceptions to that rule. Not trying to get political and making antimilitary statements but just stating the objective real fact. Even the military joke about themselves about their messups and how military intelligence is an oxymoron up there with jumbo shrimp.
before you get riled up, know some historical records. just google "us navy run aground" or "us navy crash". and this is not the first time a f up occurred, not just ever, but in the 2010s. how they managed to crash into a harbor or a protected reef let alone a lumbering cargo ship might enlighten you.
not sure if serious or just naive?
people are not perfect and the us military and navy are not exceptions to that rule. Not trying to get political and making antimilitary statements but just stating the objective real fact. Even the military joke about themselves about their messups and how military intelligence is an oxymoron up there with jumbo shrimp.
before you get riled up, know some historical records. just google "us navy run aground" or "us navy crash". and this is not the first time a f up occurred, not just ever, but in the 2010s. how they managed to crash into a harbor or a protected reef let alone a lumbering cargo ship might enlighten you.
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Beyond the potential priceless Navy personnel this is a ton of our tax payer money. With that many pumps running I am sure the interior is destroyed beyond the obvious structural damage.
This is one expensive accident and make our hard working Navy not look good.
This is one expensive accident and make our hard working Navy not look good.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Beyond the potential priceless Navy personnel this is a ton of our tax payer money. With that many pumps running I am sure the interior is destroyed beyond the obvious structural damage.
This is one expensive accident and make our hard working Navy not look good.
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones. I suspect this Captain will get a broom closet that pays more than most of us here will only be able to dream about.
Beyond the potential priceless Navy personnel this is a ton of our tax payer money. With that many pumps running I am sure the interior is destroyed beyond the obvious structural damage.
This is one expensive accident and make our hard working Navy not look good.
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones. I suspect this Captain will get a broom closet that pays more than most of us here will only be able to dream about.
Originally Posted By: Al
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones.
The majority? How about a small minority? After watching a number of CO's during my 10 yrs in, I came to the conclusion that all of them were quite capable. Whether every one of them can avoid an "incident" that is the result of multiple errors by much more junior personnel is another story. It doesn't take much. It's a dangerous business to start with. And a lot of key systems are manned by 19-26 year old young men.
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones.
The majority? How about a small minority? After watching a number of CO's during my 10 yrs in, I came to the conclusion that all of them were quite capable. Whether every one of them can avoid an "incident" that is the result of multiple errors by much more junior personnel is another story. It doesn't take much. It's a dangerous business to start with. And a lot of key systems are manned by 19-26 year old young men.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Beyond the potential priceless Navy personnel this is a ton of our tax payer money. With that many pumps running I am sure the interior is destroyed beyond the obvious structural damage.
This is one expensive accident and make our hard working Navy not look good.
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones. I suspect this Captain will get a broom closet that pays more than most of us here will only be able to dream about.
I don't wish to prejudge this captain, but if, and I emphasize "if", he is determined to be incompetent, he will probably get a joint service job where he leads very competent Army and Air Force individuals. From my limited observations in temporary joint service positions, that is where the Navy seems to send those commanders and captains that mess up in a serious manner.
I do not agree that general (flag rank) officers currently in the services are incompetent like many of the Army generals were prior to WWWII. With some notable exceptions, I have been very impressed with the ones I have run into. We are talking first Gulf War timetable, but other than a political culling of the ranks in recent history, I doubt little has changed.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Beyond the potential priceless Navy personnel this is a ton of our tax payer money. With that many pumps running I am sure the interior is destroyed beyond the obvious structural damage.
This is one expensive accident and make our hard working Navy not look good.
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones. I suspect this Captain will get a broom closet that pays more than most of us here will only be able to dream about.
I don't wish to prejudge this captain, but if, and I emphasize "if", he is determined to be incompetent, he will probably get a joint service job where he leads very competent Army and Air Force individuals. From my limited observations in temporary joint service positions, that is where the Navy seems to send those commanders and captains that mess up in a serious manner.
I do not agree that general (flag rank) officers currently in the services are incompetent like many of the Army generals were prior to WWWII. With some notable exceptions, I have been very impressed with the ones I have run into. We are talking first Gulf War timetable, but other than a political culling of the ranks in recent history, I doubt little has changed.
I'm not sure how it could be anything but gross negligence and/or incompetence.
Hopefully the unaccounted-for Sailors, will be found.
Hopefully the unaccounted-for Sailors, will be found.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Al
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones.
The majority? How about a small minority? After watching a number of CO's during my 10 yrs in, I came to the conclusion that all of them were quite capable. Whether every one of them can avoid an "incident" that is the result of multiple errors by much more junior personnel is another story. It doesn't take much. It's a dangerous business to start with. And a lot of key systems are manned by 19-26 year old young men.
It was the majority. Most stayed generals but were used in other capacities. I will venture that well under 50% were used to actually "lead" and "command" men. Any serious student of WWII history will agree with me on that.
Originally Posted By: Al
you go back to WWII the majority of first time generals, Captains, Admirals, etc are incompetent. They are replaced by competent ones.
The majority? How about a small minority? After watching a number of CO's during my 10 yrs in, I came to the conclusion that all of them were quite capable. Whether every one of them can avoid an "incident" that is the result of multiple errors by much more junior personnel is another story. It doesn't take much. It's a dangerous business to start with. And a lot of key systems are manned by 19-26 year old young men.
It was the majority. Most stayed generals but were used in other capacities. I will venture that well under 50% were used to actually "lead" and "command" men. Any serious student of WWII history will agree with me on that.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
It is being reported that one of the berthing compartments was flooded and that may account for the seven missing sailors. In addition, the Captain was seriously injured and airlifted off. For anyone familiar with this class of destroyer, did the collision affect officers country and or the captain stateroom? The lower part of the superstructure is a common place to locate that.
Too many questions to speculate. Radar, watches, radio comms? We will eventually get the word. Right now the news channels are turning into instant sailors with their speculation. I refuse to watch.
Former USCG. Four years at sea.
I will shine some light. The Fitzgerald was my first ship. I served from December 1999 to June 2004. The Captains cabin is on the starboard side near the damaged area on the superstructure. There are two crew brething area just below the waterline on the damaged starboard side, radio is just aft of said berthings, which is where I spent most of my time. This situation is terrible and my prayers are with my shipmates and their loved ones.
It is being reported that one of the berthing compartments was flooded and that may account for the seven missing sailors. In addition, the Captain was seriously injured and airlifted off. For anyone familiar with this class of destroyer, did the collision affect officers country and or the captain stateroom? The lower part of the superstructure is a common place to locate that.
Too many questions to speculate. Radar, watches, radio comms? We will eventually get the word. Right now the news channels are turning into instant sailors with their speculation. I refuse to watch.
Former USCG. Four years at sea.
I will shine some light. The Fitzgerald was my first ship. I served from December 1999 to June 2004. The Captains cabin is on the starboard side near the damaged area on the superstructure. There are two crew brething area just below the waterline on the damaged starboard side, radio is just aft of said berthings, which is where I spent most of my time. This situation is terrible and my prayers are with my shipmates and their loved ones.
Originally Posted By: Donald
With radar and other navigation and communication and navigation lighting
how can this happen? How about if this was a ship coming at the destroyer on purpose to do damage, why didn't the destroyer take evasive action?
Pray there was no loss of life.
We can't yet know how this happened although I'm sure that some professional ships' officers familiar with the area have a pretty good idea.
Human error was inevitably the cause, but why and how?
Rest assured that this accident in which a container ship struck a destroyer amidships will be thoroughly investigated and the results will ensure that this type of accident never happens again.
Meanwhile, our thoughts and prayers should be with those enlisted sailors who remain missing.
With radar and other navigation and communication and navigation lighting
how can this happen? How about if this was a ship coming at the destroyer on purpose to do damage, why didn't the destroyer take evasive action?
Pray there was no loss of life.
We can't yet know how this happened although I'm sure that some professional ships' officers familiar with the area have a pretty good idea.
Human error was inevitably the cause, but why and how?
Rest assured that this accident in which a container ship struck a destroyer amidships will be thoroughly investigated and the results will ensure that this type of accident never happens again.
Meanwhile, our thoughts and prayers should be with those enlisted sailors who remain missing.
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Looks like the keel is twisted...
22 year old warship, with no mid life upgrade.
My gut tells me she will be riding home on the Mighty Servant,
destined to become spare parts....
My prayers for the sailors aboard...
22 year old warship, with no mid life upgrade.
My gut tells me she will be riding home on the Mighty Servant,
destined to become spare parts....
My prayers for the sailors aboard...
I've spent a fair amount of time on Navy and auxiliary ships' bridges and engine rooms in my career. The post-mortem on this is going to be very interesting; like most accidents/disasters it'll be the result of an unlikely series of events. I can't imagine what took place short of loss of steerage. The only other explanation is a number of people either absent or asleep at the wheel so to speak.
I was actually on a ship when we collided with another ship but that was during an alongside lightering operation and the damage was very minor. Ships collide during underway replenishment every few years as well. But this was just a couple of ships sailing around in an unrestricted area from what I can tell.
jeff
I was actually on a ship when we collided with another ship but that was during an alongside lightering operation and the damage was very minor. Ships collide during underway replenishment every few years as well. But this was just a couple of ships sailing around in an unrestricted area from what I can tell.
jeff
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Here's a photo of it sitting higher in the water where you can see the protrusion of the bulbous bow.
That explains how it punctured again under the waterline. These first pictures we see aren't even much of the story. Wait until drydock.
They found all the missing sailors, onboard, in flooded compartments, per CNN.
Here's a photo of it sitting higher in the water where you can see the protrusion of the bulbous bow.
That explains how it punctured again under the waterline. These first pictures we see aren't even much of the story. Wait until drydock.
They found all the missing sailors, onboard, in flooded compartments, per CNN.
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