Use of bypass filters for underground mining

[Rolly]

I would like to know if someone out there have any idea if bypass filters will work in the worst environmental condition which is underground mining and have success in extending drain interval. We currently replace engine oil at 125 hrs, is it possible to extend that to 5000 hrs with a good bypass ? What brand do you recommend ?

I really appreciate any feedback and response on this. Currently we consume much on our lubrication,

 

[Steve S]

Rolly, you have to make sure the air filtration is as good as possible. Do oil analysis to see any possible problems then go from there . Major oil distributors or the equipment manufacturer would be of help. Please let us know of your decisions and results

 

[greencrew]

I can't think of any reason why it would not work there. A filter is a filter, the oil is contained inside.

The by-pass if best suited for applications with large quantities of oil. You need big oil change dollars to offset the cost of the by-pass itself, otherwise it is considered overkill.

 

[dkcase]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rolly:
I would like to know if someone out there have any idea if bypass filters will work in the worst environmental condition which is underground mining and have success in extending drain interval. We currently replace engine oil at 125 hrs, is it possible to extend that to 5000 hrs with a good bypass ?

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You want to go from 125 hours to 5000 hours ? FORTY times as long ?
Is that like extending a car's drain interval from 3000 miles to 120,000 ?
I wouldn't count on it....

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Rolly-
A good bypass filter should be able to allow you to extend the oil drain by a factor of 2 or 3, maybe more with oil analyis.

If you are using junk oil, you might be able to get to 250 hours. If you use good oil, could go much longer, but not without monitoring.

 

[Jim]

The only thing that is different in the mine compared to normal vehicle use would be the dirt in the air. What you want to be concerned about is air filtration. Bypass filters will take out what might get through the air filter so they will help somewhat. I would use good paper filters and use an oiled foam pre filter to get the majority of the dirt out. Then add a good bypass filter like a Harvard, Amsoil, or Oil Guard and do oil analysis to see how you are doing.

 

[RalphPWood]

Rolly,

I know of a Peterbilt that got it's second oil drain at about 250,000 miles when an oil pan gasket was replaced under warranty by Detroit. It would be hard to claim the leak was caused by the Gulf Coast filter. The series 60 425 HP engine hasn't had an oil change since. The Gulf Coast 0-2 needs 12 qts of oil added when it is changed at about 10,000 miles. The full flow filters are changed every 50,000. In reality this is about the same amount of new oil used as if it had a full oil change every 40,000 miles. It uses good old Shell Rotella T 15-40. The truck is probably approaching 1,250,000 miles now. They replaced the rings at 1,012,000 miles. They could find no other wear. They drained the oil into a cut off 55 gallon drum. They tore down the engine at Covington Detroit in Nashville. A shell engineer couldn't find any wear except the rings. The hone marks were still in the liners. The Detroit mechanic said the ring problem was caused by a split pre cooler hose. A little pump pumped the oil back into the engine.
The truck hauls Pepsi products with a 42 ft trailer. It is owned by Pepsi Cola of Gulfport, MS. It's a big over the road truck. When it comes to large filter systems such as you would see on North Carolina Department of Transportation ferry boats or offshore rigs for Shell or others, rock quarries in Australia, NASA generators, etc. The Gulf Coast filters are king.
For small engines I have to go with the Motor Guard of California. It has the highest quality of the small filters and is the easiest to service with no spillage. It will out filter any I've seen mentioned on this forum except the Frantz.
I can send you information by regular mail.

Ralph

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,

I have had great success with an oil pressure driven centrifuge by-pass filter on my 500hp heavy trucks. Air pressure is used to control the level in the centrifuge and oil pressure spinsthe insert. We lose about 4lbs oil pressure
The solids uptake is about .0025grm/km ( about 0.2grm/hr ) - it is efficient down to .01

It enables about 1250 hrs ( 62000 miles ) on the Delvac 1 5w-40 oil I use. The solids capacity is 600grm before cleaning and we get two oil changes between services
It is a 10 minute job to clean the centrifuge insert

The one I use is made by Glacier ( now Mann ? )
Every new truck I purchase has it fitted prior to delivery. In Australia they cost about $A1600
and plug into the oil gallery and sump return very easily

Regards
Doug Hillary

 

[RalphPWood]

I didn't answer the question about mine use. Dirt is easy to deal with with proper filtration once the dirt gets into the oil. To make an engine last the longest you need to keep the oil clean 100% of the time and keep enough new oil added to keep the oil additives up to the right amount. Additives last a very long time in clean oil. Personally I have only used one centrifuge. My oil still got dirty and had to be drained. There are engines in Australia with no oil drains at over 1,000,000 KM's. I don't like that old down to .01, all you have to do is find a particle that size in the filter and you can claim down to .01 even though a lot of particles much larger are getting thru. My favorite bypass filter has always claimed down to 1/100 of one micron. I have seen cellulose filters down stream of centrifuge fuel filers that still get dirty. Why does the cellulose filter get dirty? After 40 years of using submicronic bypass filters I am still learning.
I just put my first filter on a new 6.0 Ford Powerstroke today. It's the same filter General Motors puts on the bigger trucks as optional equipment. It was a b.... The turbo supply line made the oil pressure switch hard to get to. I didn't want to loosen it up. It took 20 ft. of hose to reach to the filter and back. The 7.3 Ford Powerstroke spoiled me. That truck looked like a Lincoln inside. The guy is a retired USAF U2 pilot and fussy as heck about his wheels.

Ralph

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
To RalphPWood
There are a number of SAE papers on this subject from 1993 onwards and you may find them of interest

Federal Mogul has an office in the USA (Plymouth, Michigan) I think. Their documents are very good and easily undertood
Typical particle size distribution of centrifuge containment is stated as
The model I use is a FM060, they are extremely good at soot containment

It does of course depend on the centrifuge drive method, rotational speed and other design factors

I may have more information too - contact me on my e-mail address if you wish

Regards

 

[RalphPWood]

Doug,

Personally I'm not an expert on centrifuges. Those numbers are not impressive to me. They are better than all full flow filters and some bypass filters. My centrifuge was chain driven off the crank shaft. It removed a lot of contaminants. It was a lot dirtier to service than the newer paper lined ones. I was talking to a guy that is an expert. He told me if I wanted a centrifuge that was as effective as the absorbing type cellulose filters. I could expect to pay over 10,000 US dollars for a multi stage unit. I was hoping to get an answer for a trucker. Actually I think I did get an answer.
On a boating forum an expert was trying to get me rattled. He said there are about 50 makers of filters trying to sell me filters, send me some information. He was from Cape Canaveral. Some filters are in Morocco now and Cape Canaveral. They have their own lab.

Ralph

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi
RalphPWood,
As you probably know I am a trucker - I also operate a Transport Industry Consultancy! I have been involved in this Industry for 45 odd years and I have an extensive knowledge of earthmoving equipment - dozers, loaders, scrapers etc

Detroit Diesel market and install the "Spinner 11" centrifuge filters that I use. This model is suitable for engines up to 1000 hp
This make of filter is made by Mann-Hummel after Federal-Mogul-Glacier sold it off about two years ago

A smaller version has been fitted as standard to LandRover diesels since about 1998

Detroit in Australia had some problems with users trying to extend oil drains with CF oils and sooting up their engines. The centrifuge was and is a good fix

I have conducted an extensive oil analysis programme on my engines - and after about 60 samples concluded that I would never buy another heavy diesel without a centrifuge being installed when new.
Both ExxonMobil and Detroit are aware of the results

DAF and MAN I believe install centrifuges' as standard in order to get 100000km drains on non synthetic oils

Regards
Doug Hillary