USB Chargers ?

[billt460]

I'm not sure if this belongs here, or in the tool forum. So if a mod wishes to move it, I understand. USB phone chargers are everywhere, and are all relatively cheap. And many of them vary as to output.

My question is how do you know if you are charging at too low of an amperage, or too high? Too low and you will have an unnecessarily long recharge time. Too high of an output might damage, or shorten the life of the smaller phone batteries.

For example, I just purchased this rechargeable flashlight. It's really nice and bright, (7,000 Lumens), and it charges from a USB type cable hooked up to a phone charger. They don't give you a charger, only a USB type cable. (They give a 40+ hour run time on the low setting).

I also bought a couple of "cigarette lighter" dual USB adapters. One for each car, to be able to keep phones, flashlights, etc. charged on the road.

7000 Lumen Rechargeable Waterproof LED Flashlight with Battery Bank

Amazing deals on this 7000 Lumen Waterproof Flashlight at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Two Port USB Car Charger

Amazing deals on this 2 Port Usb Car Charger at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Are these USB type chargers all universal? Or can you purchase the wrong one, and overcharge say a phone battery, while having that same charger work well for the much larger flashlight Lithium Ion battery?

I'll admit to not knowing much about charging Lithium Ion batteries, as compared to automotive lead acid batteries. And I don't want to screw anything up..... Or be waiting forever for a larger device like a flashlight, to recharge.

With my current phone charger, it will take my phone, (2 year old Motorola Moto E), from around 15% to 100% charge in just under 2 hours. So I'm guessing it will take far longer to recharge my new flashlight.

So my question is should I spend the money for a better charger with a higher output for the flashlight, or live with what I've got, and call it good?

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'll start with "in theory".

All USB chargers have the same voltage output - 5V DC. The only difference between chargers is the number of amps that can flow.

The charge rate is controlled by the device being charged - so it controls how many amps flow. If it will accept more amps than the charger will output - it will simply take longer to charge. If the charger has more amps than needed, the device will simply pull the amount it can accept.

If you have a newer phone you may notice that it will "smart charge" - meaning it will slow the charge rate down at night. My ihone does this. It will give me a message that says "charging will complete at 3:30 AM". It has learned that I don't use the phone at night, and charging at a slower rate is better for the battery, hence it only uses a small amount of amps even though the charger will provide more if needed.

Now having said all that, if you pull full amps on a charger constantly - you will burn it out eventually. However for something like a flashlight - your likely using it intermittently anyway so it shouldn't be a problem. I have found the CCP chargers from Amazon don't last long. If you have older, lower amp ones I would hang on to them either way.

So as I mentioned, this is all theory dependent on how well each device's charging logic is constructed. However you should be able to charge anything that uses USB to charge, off any USB port - the only difference is how long it takes.

 

[billt460]

Thanks for all that. OK, so.... Correct me if I'm wrong. These chargers don't "push" current, like a standard lead acid battery charger does. Instead the device plugged into it only allows enough current that it knows it can accept?

So if I do use a higher output charger, that can produce more amperage than the device plugged into it can take, the device will sense this and limit it's input to only what that particular device can accept without overcharging, or overheating it?

 

[IndyIan]

Thanks for all that. OK, so.... Correct me if I'm wrong. These chargers don't "push" current, like a standard lead acid battery charger does. Instead the device plugged into it only allows enough current that it knows it can accept?

So if a do use a higher output charger, that can produce more amperage than the device plugged into it can take, the device will sense this and limit it's input to only what that particular device can accept without overcharging, or overheating it?

I think it depends.
I was told I damaged the "battery controller" in my iphone 5S due to using a charger with too many amps. The phone would function fine until it got down near 30% of the battery and then the "battery controller" is supposed to notice and start telling the phone to slow down the processor so it wouldn't over draw from the battery and drop the voltage too much, causing shut down.
My rule now is that I can plug anything into a 1 amp USB charger and not worry about it, but I only use the 3 amp plug in the car for a quick boost in charge if I need to go from 30-80% on the phone fast. The higher outputs do heat up the phone a lot more I find.

 

[eljefino]

A car battery charger is crude and puts out "about" 14.2 volts. It counts on the internal resistance of the lead acid battery to taper off current when the battery fills up.

A USB charger is regulated and puts out "nearly exactly" 5.0 volts. *

There is also some "handshaking" going on where the device asks the charger, hey, are you capable of 5 volts at 2 amps? If the charger says yes, the device requests that it do so, and its internal charging circuitry accepts it. If there is no answer or if the answer is no, the device defaults to a trickle charge, maybe 5 volts at half an amp, which is the original USB 1.0 standard from the 1990s.

Now for the asterisk, some smart phones and whatnot can, in that handshaking, ask for more voltage too! The charger just has to check to see if there's anything else on the "network" eg hub or multi-plug that isn't part of this "special request" before granting permission.

The phone controls the charging current because it knows how warm the battery is getting among other factors. I needed a quick charge once so I put my phone on one of those "blue ice" packs and its current draw ramped right up!

In short, the charging circuitry for the phone battery is within the phone and you can't ruin it with a different USB charger, unless it puts out phenominally dirty power.

 

[Quattro Pete]

7000 lumen claim aside, can you access the battery compartment to see what's there? Owner manual says 7.4V 5000mAh. If i had to guess, it's two 26650 or 21700 cells connected in series, and it uses USB C port, which in theory is capable of higher voltage and current.

Anyway, the flashlight is likeky capable of accepting more power (voltage x current) than what your little cigarette lighter charger can deliver, which means the light will take longer to recharge, but it will not hurt anything.

There are other usb c car chargers that can deliver more power. Something like this will even show you what voltage and current (and power) is being drawn:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BFFD241H

 

[SHOZ]

No they are not all the same. Look at the fine print on them and they will have a watt or amp rating at 5Vdc. And the cord you use will limit full power too if it's too small of wire (usually).

My fast charge Motorola charger is 10W/2A @5vdc

 

[billt460]

Phones are expensive and complex. So I would assume they are much more sophisticated in their ability to properly charge without damage.

But today we are seeing more and more devices besides phones that charge off USB phone type chargers, like my new flashlight. Are these devices equipped with this same overcharge prevention ability?

Another example of this is one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZVRLJCY?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

My wife just bought this to replace that "canned air" that's getting more and more expensive. This thing works really well, and it can't spray refrigerant like the "canned air" does when it's full and you tilt it. It will run upside down.

But it also charges off a USB phone type charger. We used it quite a bit, and it took almost 5 hours to recharge it off my phone charger. And the charger got quite warm to the touch by the time it was fully charged.

 

[billt460]

7000 lumen claim aside, can you access the battery compartment to see what's there? Owner manual says 7.4V 5000mAh. If i had to guess, it's two 26650 or 21700 cells connected in series, and it uses USB C port, which in theory is capable of higher voltage and current.

Anyway, the flashlight is likeky capable of accepting more power (voltage x current) than what your little cigarette lighter charger can deliver, which means the light will take longer to recharge, but it will not hurt anything.

There are other usb c car chargers that can deliver more power. Something like this will even show you what voltage and current (and power) is being delivered:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BFFD241H

Yes. Here is a short video on that flashlight.

 

[alarmguy]

I'll start with "in theory".

All USB chargers have the same voltage output - 5V DC. The only difference between chargers is the number of amps that can flow.

The charge rate is controlled by the device being charged - so it controls how many amps flow. If it will accept more amps than the charger will output - it will simply take longer to charge. If the charger has more amps than needed, the device will simply pull the amount it can accept.

If you have a newer phone you may notice that it will "smart charge" - meaning it will slow the charge rate down at night. My ihone does this. It will give me a message that says "charging will complete at 3:30 AM". It has learned that I don't use the phone at night, and charging at a slower rate is better for the battery, hence it only uses a small amount of amps even though the charger will provide more if needed.

Now having said all that, if you pull full amps on a charger constantly - you will burn it out eventually. However for something like a flashlight - your likely using it intermittently anyway so it shouldn't be a problem. I have found the CCP chargers from Amazon don't last long. If you have older, lower amp ones I would hang on to them either way.

So as I mentioned, this is all theory dependent on how well each device's charging logic is constructed. However you should be able to charge anything that uses USB to charge, off any USB port - the only difference is how long it takes.

That is why we were blowing through those small 5 Watt Apple Bricks that used to charge the old iPhones with our new iPhone 13's, once we went up to the 10 Watt Apple Bricks no more issues. I also occasionally charge on a 25?watt induction charger.

It wasnt a coincidence with the 5 watt. Over a 2 weeks period they would stop working, bought two more, same thing. I knew it could not be some kind of defect by the time, made no sense except to assume the current draw was too great for the charger. Never an issue using 10+ watt chargers.

 

[Warstud]

I'm not sure if this belongs here, or in the tool forum. So if a mod wishes to move it,

Should be in Consumer Electronics

 

[brianl703]

I have found the CCP chargers from Amazon don't last long.

I've found that the most reliable chargers are those built into a wall outlet, made by a reputable company like Eaton or Leviton. I've had one installed for almost 3 years now, no problems.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Would you enjoy driving without a fuel level indicator, odometer, or speedometer?

When charging batteries it is awesome to know how much voltage the power supply is capable of maintaining under no load, and at higher loads.

It is great to know how much load the device is currently drawing from the power supply/charger.

It is great to know how much voltage is lost over the charging cable and its connectors, and watching the amperage the device accepts decline in kind.

Knowing all these parameters is enlightening in the extreme,
because guessing sucks,
as do incorrect assumptions.

USB A and USB C power meters are inexpensive, and will remove ignorance from the whole equation.

With the flashlight, say you have no idea the state of charge of the Battery and dont want to pull the cell and voltmeter and place the leads on the contacts.

Plug it in to charge with USB meter inline. If the amperage is 0.35 and declining it is likely near the 90% plus range. If it is 1.6amps and steady It is likely well below 70% state of charge.

If you had reset the counters before attaching you can the see how many mah and mwh the battery ultimately accepts, and gauge its health.

The flashlight might limit charge amperge to 1.16 amps or some other figure.

if using a 5 watt power supply then it woukd only charge at 1 amp.

If the flashlight wi charge at 3 amps, but the power supply is limited to 2.4 amps, then 2.4 amps is all you will get from it.

Maxed out power supplies/chargers will get hot, and can fail prematurely.

USB meters will make diagnosing compromised cables and contaminated connector ends/receptacles, a much easier process.

Or you can just drive in circles yelling out the window asking pedestrians how fast you are driving , how far you have travelled, and where you started from, saying my car has 275 hp available.

 

[Quattro Pete]

USB A and USB C power meters are inexpensive, and will remove ignorance from the whole equation.

Yup, those in-line USB meters are great. I use them to test power bank port outputs as well as USB wall chargers.

 

[SHOZ]

I bought a high power car charger and hard wired it in. It recharges the phone while keeping the Torque app dash on all the time.

 

[JHZR2]

I like the Anker chargers personally.

 

[Astro14]

I like the Anker chargers personally.

Me too. Very reliable. Anker cables last forever. I have yet to wear one out.

 

[billt460]

I don't know what state of charge the battery in the flashlight was in when I bought it. (I'm guessing it was quite low). The light was very bright on it's highest setting.

I charged it with the Motorola charger that came with my phone which is marked, 5.0V / 2.0A / 10.0W and it took a full 4 hours to bring it up to full charge. It says it's a 5,000 milliamp battery in the unit. The charger only got slightly warm while charging.

Do you think I can do better with a more powerful charger? If so what kind do you recommend? Or am I better off staying with what I've got?

 

[97prizm]

I'm not sure if this belongs here, or in the tool forum. So if a mod wishes to move it, I understand. USB phone chargers are everywhere, and are all relatively cheap. And many of them vary as to output.

My question is how do you know if you are charging at too low of an amperage, or too high? Too low and you will have an unnecessarily long recharge time. Too high of an output might damage, or shorten the life of the smaller phone batteries.

For example, I just purchased this rechargeable flashlight. It's really nice and bright, (7,000 Lumens), and it charges from a USB type cable hooked up to a phone charger. They don't give you a charger, only a USB type cable. (They give a 40+ hour run time on the low setting).

I also bought a couple of "cigarette lighter" dual USB adapters. One for each car, to be able to keep phones, flashlights, etc. charged on the road.

7000 Lumen Rechargeable Waterproof LED Flashlight with Battery Bank

Amazing deals on this 7000 Lumen Waterproof Flashlight at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Two Port USB Car Charger

Amazing deals on this 2 Port Usb Car Charger at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Are these USB type chargers all universal? Or can you purchase the wrong one, and overcharge say a phone battery, while having that same charger work well for the much larger flashlight Lithium Ion battery?

I'll admit to not knowing much about charging Lithium Ion batteries, as compared to automotive lead acid batteries. And I don't want to screw anything up..... Or be waiting forever for a larger device like a flashlight, to recharge.

With my current phone charger, it will take my phone, (2 year old Motorola Moto E), from around 15% to 100% charge in just under 2 hours. So I'm guessing it will take far longer to recharge my new flashlight.

So my question is should I spend the money for a better charger with a higher output for the flashlight, or live with what I've got, and call it good?

I have an awesome quick charger that I received for Christmas last year. It was in a 3 pack at Sams club I think. I have a Samsung Galaxy S8 that is in definite need of replacement. With the standard charger I can't stream videos without the battery dying. My current charger is great.

 

[wrcsixeight]

I don't know what state of charge the battery in the flashlight was in when I bought it. (I'm guessing it was quite low).

I charged it with the Motorola charger that came with my phone which is marked, 5.0V / 2.0A / 10.0W

Do you think I can do better with a more powerful charger? If so what kind do you recommend? Or am I better off staying with what I've got?

Of the several micro Usb and Usb C charged flashlights i own,
using my best 15 watt usb source, with short ( 1' or less) quality cables, and clean connectors, into a well depleted healhy battery,
The highest charge rate is 1.81 amps, the lowest is 0.61 amps.

Will your HF light be able to draw more than 10 watts from your motorola USB source can supply?

You'd have to get a Usb meter, try a 10+ watt usb supply, and tell me.

I would guess no,
but could easily be wrong.

The only potential benefit woukd be if minimum recharge times were required, or the motorola got stinky plastic hot, when being maxed out for 3 hours.