UOA - Honda ATF Z1 - 2001 Acura MDX

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youdontwannaknow

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Ok I just got my first UOA for the ATF on this car and while all the wear and insolubles looks great, I was utterly surprised to find Phosphorous in this sample!
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As you probably know I did a VOA on the same fluid a few days back and one thing that stood out was that it had no phosphorous!
So now I am completely confused as to what this could be ?
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I am the second owner of the vehicle so I dont know the full atf history of the vehicle. I am trusting that once when I had the atf drained and refiled at the dealer they put in Z1.

I will email blackstone too to see what's their take on it.

Any thoughts on the viscosity, flash and tan also ?

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Viscosity at 5.5 is low and flash looks weak.

Never trust dealers. Its too easy for dealership to use univeral ATF, or bottle of converter w/bulk ATF. Without knowing previous owners history or fluid chosen, I would start with 4 quick drain/refills or a full flush.
 
Dealers aren't as controlled as some think. My Honda dealer runs Quaker State motor oil instead of Honda/Exxon, I'm sure its driven by the discount they get from the "jiffy lube" supplier. My Toyota dealer likes all kinds of strange Wynn products and solvents.

Is your dealer one of those dealers that have multi-manufactures, like Toyota, GM, Ford, all in one? I would think they are more likely to try options.

Now that you already have phos, you don't need to feel uneasy about using Amsoil or SF and it'll have less shear
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Also, do you know if the AT was replaced. I think this is the same AT that was in the Odys that has a good chance of death early on. If it was done by Honda/Acura, there should be something in the records.

I was thinking about all the ATs honda replaced in the last few years and the 4 and 5 speed autos needing 9+ quarts. I could see the temptation for converted DexIII.

I don't know what it is, but dealers sometimes act like they are being ripped-off when they are being reimbursed by a warranty claim. I've had experiences where dealers were trying to cut corners on recalls. Last one I had was a Toyota ball joint recall. Dealer claimed a front alignment was not needed - I had to show them the Toyota recall spec as evidence that I knew they were suppose to do it. Good thing too, I got the results of the alignment, they had totally shifted the alignment of the toe.
 
well I got a note back from blackstone. they were kind to re-run that sample and still found about the same Phophorous level (155), so it is the oil.

Oh well, I guess I will just count myself lucky that the wear numbers were good.

Yes I do intend to cycle the atf 3 times and then maybe do another UOA 10-12k miles after that.

I don't believe the transmission was ever replaced but it does have the ubiquitous "oil jet kit" which was installed on all '00-'02 transmissions with V6 motors as part of the recall.
 
The oil jet should mean that you have the original. The remanufactured trans were modified to match the 04+ modifications which has the oil jet built-in (returns the use of the fill port -at least I'm told that, dipstick is still faster to me). Looks like you have a good original one.

You never know, you might have uncovered another puzzle. Since Z1 is hondas own, they could do whatever they want to it. I've heard that the CVT use of Z1 is history, if that's true, they could have reconsidered Z1's fomula. Actually, it feels overdue for Honda, next could be life time ATF priced at $20-40 a quart - I hope they don't follow Toyota.
 
Quote:

The oil jet should mean that you have the original. The remanufactured trans were modified to match the 04+ modifications which has the oil jet built-in (returns the use of the fill port -at least I'm told that, dipstick is still faster to me). Looks like you have a good original one.

Click to expand...

The fill port can certainly be utilized to fill regardless of whether or not it has the oil jet. In fact, I just filled a transmission through the fill port in a CL-S that had the oil jet kit. I can't imagine how the dipstick is faster. With the oil jet, remove the 12mm long bolt that holds down the bracket. Gently twist from side to side and lift the jet out. Once you reach the end, wiggle it slightly to completely remove it from the hollow fill bolt. Have a rag handy as some fluid WILL spill out. If needed, remove the 24mm hollow fill bolt using a 1/2" drive ratchet/breaker bar.

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Quote:

You never know, you might have uncovered another puzzle. Since Z1 is hondas own, they could do whatever they want to it. I've heard that the CVT use of Z1 is history, if that's true, they could have reconsidered Z1's fomula. Actually, it feels overdue for Honda, next could be life time ATF priced at $20-40 a quart - I hope they don't follow Toyota.

Click to expand...

Toyota's WS fluid runs about $40/gal. Not that bad...
 
filling from dipstick is not as bad as you think. I did it the same way. using a funnel and a 6" plastic extension tube that goes over the dipstick tube and filled 4qts in no time.

Infact I think I will just do it this way all the time, especially if I am going to replace the atf 3 times! It would be pain to remove and replace that jet kit every time!
Not to mention you need an 18" extension and long funnel to reach the jet kit & filler bolt, besides the spill.

If honda changed something in its brew it would have to be very recent. There's a UOA for a 2006 Oddy factory fill at 7700mi and it shows little or no phosphorous.

Now when exactly did they bump up the price of this atf ?
 
Quote:

Infact I think I will just do it this way all the time, especially if I am going to replace the atf 3 times! It would be pain to remove and replace that jet kit every time!
Not to mention you need an 18" extension and long funnel to reach the jet kit & filler bolt, besides the spill.

Click to expand...


I can undo the oil jet and bracket in less than a minute.
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Alright, I think I was wrong about the 18" extension now that I think about it...a 12" ? or so one may be all that you need with a 3/8" drive. You only need the 1/2" drive if you end up needing to remove the hollow fill bolt.
 
Maybe I'm just fat, but I have to remove the air tube and the plactic engine cover to get in there for my odys. Maybe through the wheel well would be faster. I have a funnel with a 1/2 quart reservoir that works. About half the speed of pouring motor oil, but much faster than getting to the bolt.

Maybe other Honda vehicles have layouts more user fiendly?

Yeah, at 40/gal, not bad. Now if they'd put the dipstick back in.....Maybe its BMW lifetime ATF that goes for 40/q?.

I haven't seen recent prices of Z1, though last I looked it was approaching M1 syth prices. I know with a little effort, you can save a buck or two a quart if you shop around.
 
I think that Phos value is a mistake. What Pablo says, not in these words, is that it it seems odd that the Mg and P values are exactly the same (correct Pablo?) it looks like a typo or an error that occurred when the results were being recorded. Now you said that they repeated it and got the same value, are you sure that they really did repeat? They may just have re-checked what had been recorded. I would be very surprised if a repeat gave exactly the same value. If they really did repeat then there probably should
be repeat values for all of the other elementals, have you seen that and if so how do they compare with the first run?
My analyticals for Z1 compare very well with yours and it is such an odd formulation that if someone messed with it I think it would be unlikely that everything would be in the right ballpark except the Phos.
Other than the Phos question what I see is normal additive depletion that would be expected.
 
Looking through the AFT UOAs, it could be any small mix.
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There seemed to a hint that some of the additives (like LC) had high phos.

I know some people like to "spike" their cars as soon as they buy them, i.e. scotch the seats, undercoat, slick50 in the motor, and LC in the AT - with the hope somehow these things will make the car last forever.

I would not dismiss a few Oz of an additive.
 
Most ATFs do have a significant Phos content. Honda Z1 is rather an odd one because it does not. It could be, as you say, some aftermarket product that has been added. I just think that it is strange that only the Phos is out of line with what you would expect. Then again who really knows what's in those 'mousemilk' bottles apart from the folks that are marketing them?
Then there is the actual value thing. I would be surprised to get the exact same number on a repeat on the same sample!
 
whitewolf, like I mentioned in my second post, bstone did repeat the sample and got 155 P (original was 159).
yes the first thing I noticed was that Mg and P were same and thats exactly what I had asked bstone too.
 
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