Under Valve Clover Sludge - best action to take?

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Originally Posted By: [email protected]
Let me ask you this - have you verified that your engine is getting up to normal running temperature?

My co-worker has a SL2 with the DOHC motor - the thermostat was stuck half open for god knows how long. In spite of me changing her oil for her and using top shelf synthetic every 5k miles, it still sludged/varnished up much like yours.

Verified through OBD2 data, that the car was only reaching 140f after driving for an hour. Changed t-stat, back up to 190+. Had to run 2 short OCI's to clean 'er up.



It does get to operating temperature, since i changed the thermostat at about 115k miles. no telling how long that it had not been getting up to temp prior to my ownership. The PCV is also a brand new OEM one, I have babied this car since my ownership.


I should also mention the engine runs like a dream, quiet and strong.
 
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Originally Posted By: SF0059
I would get in there and clean it by hand before changing oils or any other kind of treatment. Get as much garbage out as you can, clean up all loose particles and lube up before assembly. I think this is your best shot for the long term.


Jeez, what is this obsession of cleaning under the valve covers of old beaters. Is he going to some car show with his '99 Saturn? Leave it alone, it's running fine, it will clean up in it's own good time. And if it doesn't? He'll have another car anyway by then and the junkyard that gets it next won't care. Not to sound insensitive about your 99 Saturn, but I drive a beater '94 Bonneville myself and trust me, as long as it starts and runs well, underneath the valve cover looks are the least of my worries. OP - just keep doing what you're doing and don't clean anything by hand.
 
That little bit of black crust isn't hurting anything. Knock it loose so it clogs the oil pick up screen, and it will do harm.

You might look into the Kreen piston soak in the oil additive section. That might clean the piston rings and reduce the oil burning, but the oil burn is just due to poor engine design.

Keep using any good conventional oil and top it off as needed.
 
Thanks guys, this really put me at ease, I will continue what i'm doing and keep running high mileage conventional and semi synthetic oils in it, Other than that ill just periodically cut open the oil filters to see how they are looking. and as always with a saturn... I must keep an eye on the oil level!
 
Originally Posted By: SF0059
I would get in there and clean it by hand before changing oils or any other kind of treatment. Get as much garbage out as you can, clean up all loose particles and lube up before assembly. I think this is your best shot for the long term.


Yep, some solvent and a wire brush, make sure all the loose piece are gone and then reassemble.
 
To the OP:

Does the engine run fine?

If yes, just keep changing the oil regularly. Your Saturn might have not been cared for properly before you got it. When you first got it, under the valve cover might have been really bad.

When you first got it, did you change the oil? Was the oil really black and nasty?
 
That is pretty typical buildup for 100K miles on most engines. The best oil in the world isn't going to prevent that. It is simply the product of blowby which consists of a lot of combustion byproducts that start out in vapor form and condense at the highest points in the engine, drying and leaving small amounts of residue that slowly build up.

You really only start to have problems when the build up is so much that it begins to fall off, clogging oil drain passageways... or the buildup begins in oiling passageways or channels. You are probably a long way from that, however some engines are far worse than others (i.e. the Chrysler 2.7 and a handful of others).
 
Originally Posted By: hoosierrun
That is pretty typical buildup for 100K miles on most engines. The best oil in the world isn't going to prevent that. It is simply the product of blowby which consists of a lot of combustion byproducts that start out in vapor form and condense at the highest points in the engine, drying and leaving small amounts of residue that slowly build up.

You really only start to have problems when the build up is so much that it begins to fall off, clogging oil drain passageways... or the buildup begins in oiling passageways or channels. You are probably a long way from that, however some engines are far worse than others (i.e. the Chrysler 2.7 and a handful of others).


I wouldn't really call it "typical". Maybe for a used car with questionable maintenance history... When I pulled my valve cover at ~125k, it looked very clean. No varnish/sludge at all. That was with 5k OCIs of dealer bulk dino by the previous owner since new. And the thermostat was stuck wide open when I first got the car. Who knows how long it was like that. Now with over 200k, and it's still squeaky clean.
 
Your engine is a "good breathing" engine. i.e. it is pulling out most of the blowby. A lot of engines don't do a very good job. I shouldn't mention any manufacturers here but I have had brand new vehicles that I maintained very well and after 100K miles had buildup like that shown in the OP's picture (maybe not quite as bad as I see on the rocker shafts, but definitely the underside of the VC).
 
Looks fine, stick the valve cover back on and forget about it.


No need to waste money on nothing.
 
My 1993 SL2 just hit 100k and looking through the fill hole looks pretty clean with just some freckling here and there. Previous owner of your car did not give it the love that it deserved but it runs fine despite the neglect. I just buy oil on sale and change it out between 3k and 4k and often top off with MMO the last 500 miles of the OCI
 
I wouldn't want to dislodge anything too large either, as it could clog the pickup screen. I too think it's a good idea to keep running conventional in it and top up as necessary. Your not going to be trying to clean up the mess but keep it from getting any worse. I would run a synthetic high mileage oil in it if the budget allowed but top off with whatever you have.

Cutting open the filters will give you a good idea of what's going on.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I wouldn't want to dislodge anything too large either, as it could clog the pickup screen. I too think it's a good idea to keep running conventional in it and top up as necessary. Your not going to be trying to clean up the mess but keep it from getting any worse. I would run a synthetic high mileage oil in it if the budget allowed but top off with whatever you have.

Cutting open the filters will give you a good idea of what's going on.


I may consider Mobil 1 high mileage to see if it helps anything, and run it out to 6000 miles, I dont mind spending a few extra on top off quarts, but Ill probably wait until I cut into a few oil filters to make sure they are not getting sludgy and clogged inside.
 
At 1300 mi quart, you could do 20K mi OCI with filter change at 5K, and TBN would still be high... Could defiantly use such OCI with M1 EP, Maybe it would clean the rings and cut consumption...

Then as others have said, it's 14 year old car use what ever and drive it... That little bit of sludge isn't a real issue, trying to douche it out may cause more harm than good...
 
IMO 1qt./1300 miles is really not bad for a Saturn at 134K, particularly if it has not been going up since you got it. Both Saturns I've had/been privy burnt ~1qt./500 miles for much of their life. I'm not thrilled about having to put that much oil into them and by no means do I think this is ideal, but they ran and have continued to run for a long time.

IMO I also would not be too concerned about more consumption if you switch to a synthetic. Not sure that mine can get that much worse but I saw no change in consumption.

Just my $.02.
 
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe

I wouldn't really call it "typical".


Its pretty typical when consumption is pushing 1 quart/ 1k miles as this engine is.

When I pulled a valve cover on our old Chrysler 3.5 at >220k miles, it looked shiny and bright. But then even at that high mileage it was still burning on the order of 1 quart per 6k miles, significantly less than this engine is burning at half the mileage. Its all about volume of blow-by and when the PCV system can no longer keep ahead of it.
 
I find that all of those 1.9L Saturn engines were gross, even if it got conventional oil changes every 3000 miles.

The primary reason I read about this a badly designed piston and piston ring on all such engines.
 
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