Toyota vs Lexus maintenance sch

[MaximaGuy]

I have a Toyota and a Lexus -- both are great engineering examples.

One thing that struck me was the maintenance in the owners manual, the Lexus is quite aggressive like brake fluids, filters, coolant, transmission fluid, etc compared to the Toyota.

What struck me was brake fluid change every 30K miles while is wasn't even discussed in the Toyota.?

Any ideas why the manufacturer would mislead the customer?

 

[RamFan]

Same year?

 

[MaximaGuy]

2006 Toyota and 2011 Lexus

 

[cmorr]

I am guessing that Toyota is more sensitive to published TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) numbers. Someone comparing a Corolla to a Civic may favor the Civic if Toyota was too aggressive in their maintenance schedule

Other factors may be

- Different vehicle type (performance versus economy),m ore sophisticated systems

- A deliberate plan to target the high end buyer for more fees

 

[Astro14]

Mislead customers? You're already making value judgements....

Here's my take: Toyota and Lexus customers have different expectations for longevity of ownership. Keep a car for forever, and brake fluid changes, etc. are a wise investment. Keep a car for a few years, and you, the original owner, never see the return on that investment. Tailored recommendations for typical ownership profiles.

But you're on this forum. You know that changing the brake fluid, etc. (as the OM for both my Mercedes and both my Volvos recommend) will be worth it in the long run...

 

[NateDN10]

Are they similar models (e.g. Toyota Avalon vs. Lexus ES350)?

I would feel like the manufacturer was misleading me on one or the other if the maintenance requirements were substantially different between two cars of the same model year on the same platform.

Now, if one has a substantially higher-performance engine, brakes, etc, or if one is AWD and the other FWD, etc., that would be OK with me.

 

[The Critic]

The only difference that I've seen between the two, is the addition of brake fluid changes every 30k for Lexus.

Can you point out the differences for transmission and coolant changes? As far as I know, both sides have considered transmission fluid to be an inspection item under severe service only -- and does not require replacement on a scheduled basis.

Coolant is 10/100k and 5/50k thereafter for SLL.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Mislead customers? You're already making value judgements....

Here's my take: Toyota and Lexus customers have different expectations for longevity of ownership. Keep a car for forever, and brake fluid changes, etc. are a wise investment. Keep a car for a few years, and you, the original owner, never see the return on that investment. Tailored recommendations for typical ownership profiles.

But you're on this forum. You know that changing the brake fluid, etc. (as the OM for both my Mercedes and both my Volvos recommend) will be worth it in the long run...


So is a Highlander and an RX350 fundamentally different in those systems where a delta exists? A Camry V6 and an ES350? A hybrid vs normal, or a performance model I could certainly understand, but for variants which seem to be quite similar (need to be VERY careful here to ensure they are), cant understand why.

Or is it just that a firsthand/second hand buyer has deeper pockets for one than the other and can be sold to pay for more work at higher rates?

Are those types of vehicles even sold someplace where high speeds and other ops are the norm? At least BMW/MB/Saab/Volvo have some semblance of an excuse, supposedly at least.

Other than brake fluid, the PM regimen on all my Euro vehicles really are no different than my US and previous Japanese vehicles. BF has a specific reasoning due to high speed driving that many will argue (and it isnt the point here) is unnecessary for more or less any USA driving.

Its totally reasonable that Toyota would profit monger off of one group and their assumed fiscal capability versus another, without technical basis. No different than best buy showing different prices to those well enough to do to have a wifi capable device within their stores, or amazon supposedly charging more to people browsing on a safari browser.

 

[hattaresguy]

Are they the same model?

If the Lexus is say a GS or IS those are more sporty and Toyota probably figures will be driven harder, and have a more sophisticated braking system than a Camry. Hence the brake fluid change requirement.

As a general rule its a good idea to change the brake fluid every 1-2 years regardless of what the FSM says.

 

[keith]

Frequent white glove servicing is a part of the luxury ownership experience?

 

[ctrcbob]

My 92 Camry with 100+k miles never had a brake fluid change. I had it over eight years.

One of my two 98 Continentals and my 02 Continental also never had a brake fluid change. Both well over 100k miles and both over ten years old when sold. Never any problems. (The other 98 Continental sold when it was still a young five years old).

I'm not saying it's not good to change, but I've never found the need to do so.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: cmorr

- A deliberate plan to target the high end buyer for more fees


Ding!

In all fairness I don't know if its "targeting" so much as it is just acknowledging that the low-end buyer wouldn't do it even if the manual called for it. Its a win-win for the manufacturer: Get the fees from the high-end buyer, sell a new car sooner to the low-end buyer.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: cmorr

- A deliberate plan to target the high end buyer for more fees


Ding!

In all fairness I don't know if its "targeting" so much as it is just acknowledging that the low-end buyer wouldn't do it even if the manual called for it. Its a win-win for the manufacturer: Get the fees from the high-end buyer, sell a new car sooner to the low-end buyer.




I remember a Corolla commercial where the scene was of someone with welding gear who was brazing a Corolla hood at the seams. The tagline of the commercials was "So reliable you could weld your hood shut an forget it" or something to that effect. I always thought it was stupid, because even with 110K spark plug changes, no specified brake/PS/transmission fluid changes, you'd still want to replace the coolant and at the very least change the oil.

 

[TrevorS]

If brake fluid is the major difference could it be because Toyota use Dot 3 and Lexus Dot 4?

Lexus competes with the German Marques and Toyota with the domestics. So to some extent they align everything according to whether the vehicle is premium or not.

Another example is specifying Premium unleaded in Lexus while the same engine in a Toyota takes Regular.

 

[raytseng]

I think you guys are all barking up the wrong tree to justify your pre-conceived notions (aka fox noise playbook).

OP please post the exact models and years and exact examples of the maintenance differences.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Indeed.

As long as we talk about the actual schedule published in the owners manual. Every stealership pushes unneeded service, I recently saved my MIL a ton of money after her Nissan dealer tried to upsell her.

Note that we have driven fleet trucks here a half million miles on the original fluid. I wonder if anyone besides GMBoy knows why.

And fuel spec is due to a very different program in the PCM, they're not playing much with any EPA controlled stuff...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
My 92 Camry with 100+k miles never had a brake fluid change. I had it over eight years.

One of my two 98 Continentals and my 02 Continental also never had a brake fluid change. Both well over 100k miles and both over ten years old when sold. Never any problems. (The other 98 Continental sold when it was still a young five years old).

I'm not saying it's not good to change, but I've never found the need to do so.

Many owners think that brake fluid change isn't needed and it's an up-sell from garages and/or dealers.

 

[Burny]

lexus has the electronic Power steering so no hydraulic fluid changes there. The ATF is the [censored] and says never needs changing. Has an internal dipstick. Just changed mine out in my GS350. Not much else different.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: cmorr

- A deliberate plan to target the high end buyer for more fees


Ding!

In all fairness I don't know if its "targeting" so much as it is just acknowledging that the low-end buyer wouldn't do it even if the manual called for it. Its a win-win for the manufacturer: Get the fees from the high-end buyer, sell a new car sooner to the low-end buyer.




I remember a Corolla commercial where the scene was of someone with welding gear who was brazing a Corolla hood at the seams. The tagline of the commercials was "So reliable you could weld your hood shut an forget it" or something to that effect. I always thought it was stupid, because even with 110K spark plug changes, no specified brake/PS/transmission fluid changes, you'd still want to replace the coolant and at the very least change the oil.



YES. That was one of the most offensive commercials I've ever seen in my life (at least to my sensibilities). Its encouraging people to believe a lie- that they can just ignore their car and never open the hood. Thats exactly what's wrong with the bulk of drivers today- at least a basic understanding of how the car works and what it needs used to be necessary to function as a driver. Now its not, and that's why so many cars go to the crusher tens and hundreds of thousands of miles before they should.

I can also point to that commercial as an event that really turned me off of Toyota products for the final time. Yes, its just an ad agency that created it, but it does reflect the myth that Toyota had been cultivating for years prior to that. No thanks, I don't want an appliance. But to each his own- Toyota does still make some good products. No offense to anyone who chooses to buy them. But not me.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
My 92 Camry with 100+k miles never had a brake fluid change. I had it over eight years.

One of my two 98 Continentals and my 02 Continental also never had a brake fluid change. Both well over 100k miles and both over ten years old when sold. Never any problems. (The other 98 Continental sold when it was still a young five years old).

I'm not saying it's not good to change, but I've never found the need to do so.

Many owners think that brake fluid change isn't needed and it's an up-sell from garages and/or dealers.


And to be perfectly honest, that is true in certain climates. I never changed brake fluid for well over 300k miles on my old '73 Satellite and never had a master cylinder or caliper issue. I only changed it when I replaced the flex hoses at the front wheels and rear axle. The old gal still had her factory master cylinder at 436,000 miles when I parted with her a few months ago, and she drove and stopped just fine on her way to a new home. In Arizona probably its even less of a problem than here in Central Texas. But in the cold midwest, salty/wet winter northeast or even the perpeutally humid south, it is helpful to change the fluid every few years.