Toyota good engineering

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If anything I've learned from this thread....

All the complaining about this place of that place not using a torque wrench to perfectly torque each of your lug nuts.

Doesn't much matter if neither they or you know exactly what to torque them to in the first place!

Saw a wheel come off a Gran Prix on the freeway at about 80mph last fall. Lots of sparks, but the guy got to the side without deviating from his lane. Poor guy... tire must've rolled half mile down the median. It does happen...
 
Comparing my 2000 Toyota Sienna, 1994 Honda accord and 2000 BMW Z3 I would say both the Honda and the BMW have much more elegant designs for holding the wheels on the car.

The Toyota lug nuts are very soft and they are getting severely damaged as they cut into the rim. They now have lots of sharp bits of metal and some are stiff to turn. This is just from changing from snow tires to all seasons and back each year and torquing correctly each time. It is probably time to change them out.

The Honda lug nuts are still in perfect condition other than a bit of rust on the chrome and they have a cool function in positively holding the hub caps in place.

On the BMW the studs unscrew and they are also still in perfect condition. It is a bit of a PITA to get the first one started, when remounting the wheel, since there are no studs at all.
 
Dunno why BMW uses studs instead of nuts to hold the wheels.

I had studs on my VWs in the seventies and haven't seen wheel studs since then and thought that the world was blessedly free of that design. A buddy of mine bought a 2008 BMW X5 and I just took off his snow tires and guess what I found - studs holding the wheels on. Not only is it difficult to get the studs started when putting the wheel back on but if a tire shop ever cross-threads a stud and damages the threads in the hub, then you are looking at possible replacement of the hub. When lug nuts are used, it is very easy to replace a damaged wheel stud.

I think it was Pablo who posted about a tire shop damaging all the lug nuts on his friends car. If it had been a BMW the tire shop would have had to spring for four new wheel hubs. I hate to think how much four new BMW wheel hubs cost.

Why does BMW insist on using studs? I have respect for their engineering prowess but this one leaves me shaking my head.
 
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It seems to be a german thing. One other real unlikely place to see them is on a Saturn L-series, apparently carring over from its Opel Vectra roots.
 
Originally Posted By: Big_3_Only
I'd rather ride a skate board than a toyota. What an overhyped piece.


Now there is an unbiased scientific opinion on Toyotas! Good enough for me. From now on only the big 3 for me (not).
 
Originally Posted By: Big_3_Only
I'd rather ride a skate board than a toyota. What an overhyped piece.


40.gif
 
Originally Posted By: George7941
Originally Posted By: Big_3_Only
I'd rather ride a skate board than a toyota. What an overhyped piece.


Now there is an unbiased scientific opinion on Toyotas! Good enough for me. From now on only the big 3 for me (not).


Naw man, that is a biased, unscientific fact. My son has a really nice skateboard.
 
I have had 3 Toyotas...all 76ft lbs. My YukonXl was 140...correction 4 Toyotas. The cars were all 76. My 4R is 85 six lug.
 
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Originally Posted By: toytundranator
I really wouldn't call it "good engineering".

The lugnuts on my Tundra (for trucks) calls for 83ft lbs. 76ftlbs must be for the 5 lug patterns (cars and small pickups).


Wouldn't make a skerrick of difference if the fasteners are properly designed.

6 lugs takes more total load than 5 lugs, but the fasteners could be the same.

Originally Posted By: itchrelief
It seems that people will find any excuse to praise Toyota.

There's no free lunch, though. What were the tradeoffs made to standardize the torque?


Doesn't need to be a trade-off.

If you have a thread design/pitch that is standard, and a standard platform under the nut, then you can get a standard torque without any real trade-offs...other than using torque to set your nuts.

They (all) should be giving a "snug, plus angle" for each design of wheel. Or standardising across their range thread design and underhead platform, with a specific lube/finish/torque.

As to bolted wheels, dunno why they do that.

My BMW has aftermarket studs and nuts. I like proper studs (not bolts).
 
BMW doesn't use studs, they use lug bolts.

Prior to the switch to run flat tires and the elimination of the spare, the tool kit in the trunk contained a half-jacketed metal rod to be used as a temporary pin to help with putting the wheel back on and getting the fasteners started.

Compared to some hub designs with studs, BMW's arrangement makes it very easy to replace rotors.
 
About snapping the wheel studs...My Toy Avalon I have has broken more studs than any other car I have owned. I think the count is at least 6 studs. My old Ford and Chrysler NEVER had that happen.
 
Originally Posted By: George7941
Dunno why BMW uses studs instead of nuts to hold the wheels...

...haven't seen wheel studs since then and thought that the world was blessedly free of that design...


All recent euro cars that Ive touched use wheel studs. This includes Saab, VW, MB and BMW.
 
Originally Posted By: Carmudgeon

Prior to the switch to run flat tires and the elimination of the spare, the tool kit in the trunk contained a half-jacketed metal rod to be used as a temporary pin to help with putting the wheel back on and getting the fasteners started.

Compared to some hub designs with studs, BMW's arrangement makes it very easy to replace rotors.


Wow, I learn something new everyday - my Bimmer has a tool kit and in it is a plastic coated rod that manual calls a "centering pin". My next tire change will be much easier.

Thanks.
cool.gif
 
I may have learned something too. I remember seeing a T-shaped orange tool in the tool kit of my buddy's X5 and wondered what it was for. Maybe it is the centering pin.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Well thats conclusive enough for me. Toyota is the greatest vehicle on earth.


I like 'em!
 
Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Well thats conclusive enough for me. Toyota is the greatest vehicle on earth.


I like 'em!


Here is one to think about...I had a 2001 Toyota Tundra that I thought was the best truck made...

Then I drove it awhile.

Each time I rotated the tires at least one lug nut would break when torqued to the proper spec. I ended up keeping a stock of them for each time I rotated the tires.
The windows would rattle and sound like they were falling out when they were rolled down about 2" ...I was told by the dealer and the regional service reps that this was normal and they would not do anything about it.
The clips that held the wing windows in the back of the extended cab both broke the second time I opened them.
The back doors on the extended cab would rattle.
The dashboard would make a loud popping noise going over bumps. I took it to the dealership and they broke the windshield trying to find the noise...then claimed it was that way when I took it there...so they would not replace it...and on top of that they did not fix the noise.
Multiple lights burned out on the instrument cluster after a couple of years.
The exhaust manifolds cracked where they were bolted to the engine block which caused very low fuel economy because the O2 sensors were trying to compensate for the leak....this was a $1500 replacement of exhaust manifolds.

I personally will never even look at another Toyota...the TOY in the name says it all.
 
Originally Posted By: Hazmat
Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Well thats conclusive enough for me. Toyota is the greatest vehicle on earth.


I like 'em!


Here is one to think about...I had a 2001 Toyota Tundra that I thought was the best truck made...

Then I drove it awhile.

Each time I rotated the tires at least one lug nut would break when torqued to the proper spec. I ended up keeping a stock of them for each time I rotated the tires.
The windows would rattle and sound like they were falling out when they were rolled down about 2" ...I was told by the dealer and the regional service reps that this was normal and they would not do anything about it.
The clips that held the wing windows in the back of the extended cab both broke the second time I opened them.
The back doors on the extended cab would rattle.
The dashboard would make a loud popping noise going over bumps. I took it to the dealership and they broke the windshield trying to find the noise...then claimed it was that way when I took it there...so they would not replace it...and on top of that they did not fix the noise.
Multiple lights burned out on the instrument cluster after a couple of years.
The exhaust manifolds cracked where they were bolted to the engine block which caused very low fuel economy because the O2 sensors were trying to compensate for the leak....this was a $1500 replacement of exhaust manifolds.

I personally will never even look at another Toyota...the TOY in the name says it all.


For every one tale like this there are hundreds of GM stories.
I've had mostly Toyota vehicles over the last 20+ years and been very happy with their service.
I can share some '02 Grand Prix,Explorer and son former '06 Cobalt stories with ya.
No more trying the US badge again.
 
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