Toyota CVT Fluid TC or FE ?

[Rogersp]

Hi

Not sure if anyone has experienced this problem

My daughter inherited my old Toyota Avensis, same/similar to the SciontC in the USA, and I'm planning to complete a number of CVT fluid changes to replace as much of the old fluid as I can. The problem I have is the vehicle owner handbook clearly states TC fluid only to be used but the CVT Filler plug specifies FE, stamped on the plug itself. I've spoken to Toyota both locally and the UK Help Desk but they are unable to offer a solution and standby the fluid for life routine.

Aftermarket fluids are specified as suitable for both FE and TC requirements and the differences between the two Toyota fluids is marginal. I've also tried to contact Aisin who make the K311 CVT units for Toyota but the UK operation is purely marketing operation for their fluids and my additional query direct to Aisin in Japan seems to have fallen into a black hole.

The car is now 10 years old, 70k miles, and is immaculate, and has been faultless but like many others I do not buy the filled for life routine. So my dilemma is go with the Toyota TC fluid, only available in UK in 20Ltr containers, or use the FE fluid which available in bot 1 Ltr and 5 Litre containers.

I'm leaning towards a quality aftermarket fluid but just wondered if anyone else has experienced this problem of the Owners Hand book specifying TC Fluid with CVT Filler plug being stamped FE Fluid?

Thank you for any opinions etc.

 

[cptbarkey]

Aisin makes the FE fluid. I wouldnt diverge much beyond that for a CVT.

 

[atikovi]

Seeing that Aisin made the transmission I'd use what the fill plug says,

Used in my Corolla with no issues.

 

[oldcodger]

The unit has gone this far on the Toyota fuid. I do not think now is the time to start messing with it. Stick with the OEM fluid. Don't mess with a good thing.

 

[supton]

Hard call, ideally the manual would match the plug. And the dealership should be much better at knowing what to use.

The door jamb should list what transmission is used. And through other means verify that it is FE required, and then move forward with FE fluid. That is what I would do (alongside lots of sweating about it!).

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

I had a similar situation with a 2010 Pontiac Vibe--basically a Toyota Matrix with some GM bodywork. The owner's manual specified T-IV ATF, but the dipstick was stamped WS. I used WS in that case. The manual also called for GM Dexcool, but the coolant was clearly the bubblegum-pink of Toyota super long-life coolant.

I just found this page about Toyota trans fluids:
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/03-03-29_e77-04_eng.htm

I can't vouch for any of the commentary, but the timeline seems useful. Apparently, TC was Toyota's first CVT fluid. FE, a lower-viscosity fluid, was phased in around 2012. Your model year seems to be right in that transition period, which could explain the discrepancy between manual and fill plug as well as the limited availability of TC fluid. I would probably use what the transmission says myself.

I do need to change fluid in a 2018 CVT soon. I haven't done enough research yet to have any clarity about multi-vehicle vs. OEM fluids.

 

[Rogersp]

Hard call, ideally the manual would match the plug. And the dealership should be much better at knowing what to use.

The door jamb should list what transmission is used. And through other means verify that it is FE required, and then move forward with FE fluid. That is what I would do (alongside lots of sweating about it!).

Definitely a K311 Aisin CVT so am leaning towards FE fluid.
Thanks for your input

 

[supton]

I do need to change fluid in a 2018 CVT soon. I haven't done enough research yet to have any clarity about multi-vehicle vs. OEM fluids.

On my prior Toyota's, I did not think twice about dropping in Maxlife, it had too many positive reviews on the web. Lately there has been more dislike for it in this application, so I'm not sure if I would do it again the same way if I were to go back in time. But for the short distances involved (75k on one, 120k on the other) it's been just fine.

But on this CVT... I'm taking no chances. My only decision right now is, FE fluid from dealer, or Aisin FE fluid from Rock? I'm leaning towards Aisin, I'm not sure what Toyota would do to their fluid that is somehow better for the Aisin designed and manufactured transmission. Aisin might be no good at making fluid, but I can't see Toyota being better in that regard either.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I serviced a high mileage 2013 Corolla with Aisin FE fluid and am about to do a 2nd service. I believe the CVT services have been neglected.

 

[Rogersp]

I serviced a high mileage 2013 Corolla with Aisin FE fluid and am about to do a 2nd service. I believe the CVT services have been neglected.

I find it amazing Toyota, in the UK, almost actively discourage any fluid changes in the CVT units. I've always believed oil is cheaper that engines and likewise with gearboxes so over time the CVT fluid must be punished and the properties of the fluid diminished. I know a local guy who's a lubrication technologist for a medium size oil company and he is of the opinion sealed for life is not a one size fits all in the many environments that motor vehicles are subjected to. Additionally, he also insists any non OEM manufacturer making OEM equivalent lubrication fluids will ensure the equivalent fluid is superior to the OEM product to ensure they are not open to any liability due to inferior quality so why do people believe only Toyota CVT fluid should be used in Toyota CVT gearboxes. Do those same people only purchase Toyota Engine oil, Brake Fluid, Screen Wash etc?

Added to all this I really can't understand why the drain and refill process for the Toyota CVT, although doable for a reasonably competent home mechanic, needs to be complex in anyway shape of form. What was wrong with having a dipstick and checking the fluid level but what do I know, keep it simple stupid is my motto!

 

[KeithH]

Hi

Not sure if anyone has experienced this problem

My daughter inherited my old Toyota Avensis, same/similar to the SciontC in the USA, and I'm planning to complete a number of CVT fluid changes to replace as much of the old fluid as I can. The problem I have is the vehicle owner handbook clearly states TC fluid only to be used but the CVT Filler plug specifies FE, stamped on the plug itself. I've spoken to Toyota both locally and the UK Help Desk but they are unable to offer a solution and standby the fluid for life routine.

Aftermarket fluids are specified as suitable for both FE and TC requirements and the differences between the two Toyota fluids is marginal. I've also tried to contact Aisin who make the K311 CVT units for Toyota but the UK operation is purely marketing operation for their fluids and my additional query direct to Aisin in Japan seems to have fallen into a black hole.

The car is now 10 years old, 70k miles, and is immaculate, and has been faultless but like many others I do not buy the filled for life routine. So my dilemma is go with the Toyota TC fluid, only available in UK in 20Ltr containers, or use the FE fluid which available in bot 1 Ltr and 5 Litre containers.

I'm leaning towards a quality aftermarket fluid but just wondered if anyone else has experienced this problem of the Owners Hand book specifying TC Fluid with CVT Filler plug being stamped FE Fluid?

Thank you for any opinions etc.

Hi
Your thread was of interest to me as I am just contemplating doing a partial CVT fluid change on my Toyota IQ. The filler plug states 'TC' but as you are already aware, TC fluid is only available in 20l containers in the UK. I also have not found information to confirm adding 'FE' fluid will be OK (basically mixing them) so I was wondering if you had any further information and what you decided to do with your Avensis. Thanks

 

[Rogersp]

Hi

I'd all but made my mind up top go with either:

• Castrol Transmax as its suitable match for both TC or FE specifications
• Morris Oils - Multitrans CVT

I spoke to technologists at both companies and both basically said their CVT Fluid specification was a better specification than the Toyota CVT fluid as it had to be to state it was equivalent. One asked me if I bought Toyota engine oil, which obviously I don't, so why would I think I needed Toyota CVT fluid. All the manufacturers publish Technical information sheets for there fluids, as do Aisin, so you can cross reference each fluid with the Aisin Fluid who manufacture Toyota CVT fluid.

Both of them also stated it would be fine to do a partial drain and fill, circa 2L if I recall correctly, and repeat the same a few months later to slowly improve the quality of the fluid within the CVT gearbox.

On the temperature front I was advised a local gearbox specialist to ensure both fluids were at the same temperature and just replace what I removed so negating the rigmarole of shorting out pins on the OSB facility. The specialist was experienced with the Nissan CVT which he said were poorly designed and manufactured and had 4 in his workshop for rebuilding. The Aisin CVT he stated were very well designed and built and, in his experienced, gave little trouble unlike the Nissan type.

All that said I've still not completed the exercise as I've been unable to pin my daughter down to give me time to do it but I will when the better weather comes in Spring.

I haven't fully decided which process I'll adopt but think I'll just use the IR Thermometer method as it will be close enough to the required level. I'll post again when Ive completed the exercise and the car has been used for a few months.

Although I'm a real Toyota/Honda fan the support from Toyota was, at best, poor by not being able to confirm which fluid to use TC or FE and as you'll have found out very expensive. I suppose we pay our money and take our chances.

Please do let us all know what you decide to do.

 

[KeithH]

Hello
Thank you very much for your reply. The Castrol Transmax is readily available so I think I will go with that.

My plan is to extract fluid from the filler hole on the transmission using a suction syringe, rather than draining from the pan if this is indeed possible. It will hopefully be easier as the filler can be accessed through the wheel arch rather than working underneath. It should also be more controlled and there should be less chance of 'losing' some of the fluid coming out. I will then replace with the same quantity of new fluid.

I am happy to do several partial fluid changes over the coming months even if this uses more fluid if this method proves to be an easy one and gradually improve the overall fluid quality.

My IQ has done 66K miles - generally used lightly and at lower speed journeys. I am interested to see what the existing fluid looks like when I remove a quantity.

I will indeed update the forum with my progress.

Thanks once again for sharing your help and advice.

 

[markweatherill]

Hello there, I'm following this thread with interest.

I have a 2012 Toyota Porte, a Japanese import with the 1NR-FE engine and K410 CVT. I've had it for about six months and it has 50,000 miles. The recommended fluid is 'FE'.

A couple of days ago I removed the filler plug. The tiny amount of fluid on the inside of it was a healthy looking red colour.
Today I fed a very thin tube through the filler to see if I could reach the fluid level. When I pulled it out, there was a tiny amount clinging to the end. It was a little paler than the bright red of brand new fluid, but not darkened.

I'm wondering if the factory fill of CVT fluid could look this way afer 50,000 miles?

 

[supton]

Yes, when I did a drain and fill on my cvt that had 50k, it was surprisingly good looking. I suspect that, as there is just one clutch in it, the lockup in the converter, that there is no clutch material being shed at high rates. It quickly goes into lockup, and then stays there, never needing to unlock (until stopping), despite all the gear ratio adjustments.

Also, since it doesn’t unlock, nor try to run unlocked for a few extra rpm instead of downshifting, perhaps there is less peak temperature to cook the oil? I know these transmissions have their issues but they are a bit different and the old rule of color might not quite apply here.

 

[KeithH]

Your recent posts have reminded me to update this thread.
I also removed the fill plug on my IQ (66K miles) and there was a drop of oil on the back which looked pretty clean (red) . I 'dipped' the transmission with a tube and drew off a small sample to put in a transparent pot - it looked slightly darker than a single drop, but I suppose this would be expected. Overall, the fluid was better than I had expected clarity wise.

I think my plan of removing a quantity with a syringe extractor and then replacing like for like will work. I will have a go at this on a nice warm day.

All in all, after seeing the fluid colour, not having any transmission issues and also that my IQ now does low mileages (3.5K per annum), I have less concerns overall.

My drain plug is marked 'TC' and as I said in an earlier post, I will use Castrol Transmax when I replace any fluid.

 

[markweatherill]

Hello,

today I did the first partial CVT fluid change on my car. I used a hand suction pump and fed around a foot of 5mm PVC pipe down into the fill port, getting 1.8L out. There's an image of the dregs of it in a jug to give an idea of its colour. Maybe if I'd persevered I could have got 2L out.

Then I put in 1.8L of new fluid. I used Mannol 8216, a multipurpose fluid, having had good results with Mannol ATF on my last car.
This fluid is yellow by the way. It claims suitability for both TC and FE; its published viscosity figures are close to TC.
I bought 4L of it so I have enough for another partial change later this year.

According to the 'partial drain and fill calculator' I now have 28% new fluid.
Took the car for a spin round the block and all seems well!