Tough pistol choice

[engineerscott]

Originally Posted By: Rix
I was just commenting on the .30 caliber portion that's all. All said in humor, no malice or ill will. Just a funny comment.

With that said..... if I ever WAS to carry a pistol chambered in tokarev, I am not worried about poking holes vs. giant wound tracts.


Yeah, no problem, no offense taken.

Originally Posted By: Rix
Over penetration is a problem, no doubt. But me, my wife, my dad, my friends, etc dying is a bigger problem in my book.


But that's my point exactly. My raising the issue of over penetration isn't mainly about being worried about hitting someone behind the bad guy (though that's certainly an issue), the main problem is that if you've got a fast, relatively small caliber, FMJ round it tends to make nice neat holes that go in one side and out the other, having deposited little energy in the target and generating little tissue damage, hydraulic shock, trauma and large scale internal hemorrhaging (all things that you want to do to drop the bad guy quickly). You'd be surprised at how many places you can poke 0.30" holes clean through a human body without causing any immediate issues. If even if your 0.30" hole intersects something relatively vital the bad guy may not succumb for tens of minutes or even hours. In fact, you can poke a nice neat little hole through a lot of places that will ultimately be fatal but it might not even slow the guy down much for a half hour or so, long after he's had the chance to finish you.

Originally Posted By: Rix
I'd love to have a number of different, modern weapons, all chambered in tokarev.
I should start buying tokarev again, I think I'm under 1,000 rounds now.

/thread-jack.
Sorry.


I agree, I think these guns are interesting in and of themselves and that's why I'll be buying one soon. I personally like owning some of the old Soviet bloc weapons just because they are so interesting and a part of history and not everyone has them. And the Tokarev is a very powerful round that can do some pretty darn impressive things that few other pistol rounds can accomplish. And if I ever get attacked by a guy wearing body armor I know which pistol I'd pick up first. That said, if some crack addled guy breaks in my house, I'd probably reach for the 9mm or .45ACP first, but if the Tok was closer I wouldn't feel too bad about it, though I might think about different shot placement.

 

[Rix]

I'm not under the impression that I'm for sure going to be able to put shots exactly where I want them under extreme duress.
That's part of the reason why there's an 870 next to the bed. Harder to miss with a shot spread

There are soooo many stories about crack heads continuing with MASSIVE internal trauma, stories about .30 carbing bouncing off layers of clothing, 9mm not stopping people, .45 not stopping people, etc, that I generally completely ignore them.

I personally would feel better about being armed with my ruger MKI than nothing at all. (not that I'd ever carry a MKI target)

But my SR9 conceals quite well, and carries 17+1.
the CZ52 carries 8+1 and has a fairly terrible safety lever.
They don't get carried.
When the zombies come though......


LOL

 

[engineerscott]

Originally Posted By: Rix
I'm not under the impression that I'm for sure going to be able to put shots exactly where I want them under extreme duress.


I agree completely. That argues for a powerful larger caliber that had good expansion qualities. I don't want to have to place rounds precisely on target to make a guy stop whatever he's doing.

 

[Rix]

Same reasoning why I prefer 18 to 8.

 

[Y_K]

In Russia they currently go gaga over Smith M&P, and it is a very good piece IMO.

 

[RW1]

Since you're in Bellingham, be sure to swing by Kesselring's Gun Shop in Burlington. Lots of neat stuff there and decent prices.

Just wanted to add: Do not trust the safety mechanisms on Tokarev's (especially the Chinese ones!). The original design did not have a safety and all of the safety's I see seem pretty half-buttocks.

CZ-52 is a very stout handgun. But the grips feel like you're holding a 2 X 4. But you will not wear that handgun out by firing it.

Also wanted to put a plug in for a good 1911. I guess I'm down to 3 now (went thru a Sig phase) but I still have my first 1911 - a satin nickel Colt Commander Series 70. I estimate over 100K rounds have gone thru it. It's semi-retired and a "frankenstein gun" from a variety of parts being replaced as they broke or wore out. But it's easy to use, repair,customize and just keeps on ticking.

 

[engineerscott]

Originally Posted By: RW1
Just wanted to add: Do not trust the safety mechanisms on Tokarev's (especially the Chinese ones!). The original design did not have a safety and all of the safety's I see seem pretty half-buttocks.


Just wanted to give that a big second. Most of the Tokarev's I've held in my hand had dodgy safeties. Like RW1 said, the design didn't originally have a safety and the importers had to add them to bring them in the country. Some importers did better jobs than others. Wish I could tell you which importers to look for and which to avoid, but I don't remember off the top of my head which where the good ones and which were the bad ones, and even with one of the "good ones" I'd treat that safety with even more respect than most other weapons in safe mode.

Of course, if you follow the rule of treating all guns as if they are loaded and ready to fire and you never point it at anything you aren't prepared to destroy you'll be fine.

 

[wsar10]

GLOCK GLOCK GLOCK period. I would not depend my life on any other.

 

[yaris0128]

Originally Posted By: wsar10
GLOCK GLOCK GLOCK period. I would not depend my life on any other.
I agree with you. I wouldnt put any pistol above a Glock. But this is just part of my military collection and a range shooter. Not a CCW.

 

[Rix]

I STILL don't like glocks.
Just shot another last week, still can't bring myself to want one.

 

[Tempest]

I love their mechanics, but hate their ergos.

 

[Rix]

Yup. the grip angle is the reason Why I don't carry either of my Steyrs. (same grip angle as glock)
I like shooting them, but in a draw-from-the-holster, the are pointed high every time.

 

[wsar10]

my CCW is the model 30,
I was never a fan of most GLOCK frames as i have big hands, thats why i got the model 30's and 21's but now they have GEN 4 GLOCKS and they have interchangable backstraps (3 diff sizes)so now all GLOCKS feel good in my hand, I picked up a brand new 17 last year cuz I got it at dealer pricing through work.
I LOVE IT....

 

[engineerscott]

Glocks have their place. If I were in law enforcement and had to carry a sidearm all day long I think the light weight of a Glock would be a huge advantage. On the other hand, if I've got a pistol in my nightstand for self defense, a heavier weapon doesn't have nearly the downside with respect to weight and in fact a heavier gun with the right action will exhibit less recoil and will be easier to place a second or third round on target. Don't get me wrong, a Glock has very manageable recoil, especially for a handgun of it's weight, but in my mind if I don't have to carry a gun on my hip all day a certain amount of mass can be your friend. Nothing wrong with the Glock, I just don't see it's main advantages as coming into play for a home defense weapon. Now, concealed carry, that's another story altogether.