Thoughts for your lottery winnings

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Originally Posted By: tom slick
I'd buy an acrobatic plane of some type. Go up, goof off doing rolls, loops, hammerheads, etc, land when bored for the day. Maybe a LM-400J to haul my stuff.


They have a PZL that qualifies, I think.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Six Drakens available from the same seller - Get an early start on your next.... altercation.


I believe they were used by the USAF as test pilot trainers? or was that the Viggen?


Yes. But they belong to an outside contractor that conducts the training. I can't remember what all else they operate but I think the can't-remember-where article I read had a long and very eclectic list.
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Six Drakens available from the same seller - Get an early start on your next.... altercation.


I believe they were used by the USAF as test pilot trainers? or was that the Viggen?


Yes. But they belong to an outside contractor that conducts the training. I can't remember what all else they operate but I think the can't-remember-where article I read had a long and very eclectic list.


They certainly aren't stationed at the Test Pilot School, must be a contractor.
 
Here they are. 80+ aircraft !


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draken_International

http://www.drakenintl.com

From website: Mission Type: Test Pilot Training
Draken currently supports the National Test Pilot School, International Test Pilot School, US Air Force Test Pilot School and the US Naval Test Pilot School with our fleet of dual seat MB-339's, TA-4K and L-39's. Our fleet of dual seat jets and instructors provide an ideal platform for the test pilot schools to train domestic and international pilots.

This is also the place where Dale Snodgrass of F14 (and Astro14) fame resides as chief pilot.
 
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Originally Posted By: Cujet
If I win the lottery, a fighter jet or aerobatic aircraft is the last thing I would purchase.

Just an FYI, this monster is an amazing performer, with 10 second 1/4 mile acceleration it flat out sets you in the seat like the hand of God, it has amazing Mach 0.87 climb speeds, and Mach 0.93 max cruise speed. I have to tell you, I am beyond impressed with the G650 in our flight department:


g650-aerial04-1280x600.jpg


G650-SN-6076_Fwd_Interior11.jpg


And with an 8500 statute mile range, it will take you from the continental US, all the way to Sydney, Australia, nonstop.
It has a bathroom! I'll take one.
 
Our flight department has Extra 300L aerobatic aircraft. While the idea seems incredibly fun, all of us get a bit queasy if we push it. They are wonderful aircraft to fly in a normal manner though.

Fighter jets and other high performance aircraft can easily and quickly overwhelm the body. Consider a simple loop in a fighter. It can easily take many thousands of feet, and does not happen all that quickly. Leading to high "G" maneuvers for long periods of time.

nellis2008_308xx.jpg


Watch what happens!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWLi9UkV5nY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM4rS38pd0U
 
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Someone up in Tennessee won the $421M last night. So back to bread and water and Cherokees I guess. OK by me.
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Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
Originally Posted By: CT8
I would prefer an aircraft with a bathroom. C130 or 747 Think big.


I already fly a plane with a bathroom. I want a fun plane.

Astro, how does the roll rate in the A-4/TA-4 compare to an F-14?


Roll rate in the A-4 was phenomenal - 720 degrees/second. Best I've ever flown. The F/A-18 was a close second at 540 degrees/second. The F-14's roll rate was a known limitation, about 180 degrees/second (slightly faster or slower, depending on wing position and airspeed).

The A-4 was a great flying airplane. Very honest. Good pitch control. Great roll response. But stable when you were off the controls. Precise and stable when landing or in a bombing run. Good high AOA handling, the leading edge slats gave it great slow speed characteristics, it would roll with rudder (preferred) or aileron at very low speed (80 KIAS).

I had a chance to fly the TA-4J as part of flight training. Got about 100 hours in it. Loved it. Had a chance to fly it a few times during an aggressor hop in Key West. Still loved it. Straightforward, easy to fly well, good power. It would be a great warbird to own.

I flew one from Meridian, MS to NAS Glenview (north of Chicago, long since decommissioned). Loitered at NAS Memphis on the way and flew six instrument approaches. With full drop tanks (an 8,000# load), it had the legs to fly about 1,000 miles with IFR fuel reserves. So, as a warbird, it had decent legs.
 
I would vomit long before passing out. Taxing down the ramp starts the process. The Blue Angles are so awesome.
 
My initial thought would be a T33 but I'd quickly consume my lottery winnings keeping it fueled!

Small lottery winning probably a Piper Cub or maybe a Pitts Special S2C, BIG lottery win... Beechcraft T-6 Texan II, Tucano or something similar would be nice.
 
Astro (and other airline guys), could you comment on the thought that one of your old UAL 752's could be bought for the 2.5M number associated wiTH the A4? Specifically what a full D-check/IRAN and maybe a $2M interior allowance might cost? I assume engine overhauls at about $2M each and an avioncs upgrade at $1.5M which might be low.

The reason I ask is that with large cabin and long range bizjets in 43-45+ and bizliners (737/Airbus) at 80- $100M prices you have to wonder about the crossover point against operational hourly costs. I suppose we'd have to look at it without regard to taxes but just to keep it relatively simple....

Where it starts getting my attention is even if that number ended up being $20M, which seems way high, it would take a long time to chew through the $45M difference between that and a $65M G650 for instance in terms of operating costs. But that's the question isn't it. What would it cost to operate the 752 in low utilization for between 400-800 hours per year. If I read B&CA correctly I could assume $1M+ right up front for fixed costs (and more with various taxes I guess).

Would love to hear info?

BTW Did you see the entry above on where Dale Snodgrass is theze days?
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Astro (and other airline guys), could you comment on the thought that one of your old UAL 752's could be bought for the 2.5M number associated wiTH the A4? Specifically what a full D-check/IRAN and maybe a $2M interior allowance might cost? I assume engine overhauls at about $2M each and an avioncs upgrade at $1.5M which might be low.

The reason I ask is that with large cabin and long range bizjets in 43-45+ and bizliners (737/Airbus) at 80- $100M prices you have to wonder about the crossover point against operational hourly costs. I suppose we'd have to look at it without regard to taxes but just to keep it relatively simple....

Where it starts getting my attention is even if that number ended up being $20M, which seems way high, it would take a long time to chew through the $45M difference between that and a $65M G650 for instance in terms of operating costs. But that's the question isn't it. What would it cost to operate the 752 in low utilization for between 400-800 hours per year. If I read B&CA correctly I could assume $1M+ right up front for fixed costs (and more with various taxes I guess).

Would love to hear info?

BTW Did you see the entry above on where Dale Snodgrass is theze days?


Some businessmen do choose an airliner as a corporate or personal jet. Airliners can be reasonably priced, are extremely reliable, can be serviced worldwide and are very roomy when configured with a luxury interior.

We operated a B727 with extended range tanks as a corporate jet for many years. Pretty awesome! Especially with the aft stairs, making entry and exit very easy for everyone.

Typically a 757 like Trump's aircraft, will require your destination to have "airstairs". Plan on 300 minimum to 500 hours per year use. About 12,000-24,000 (757-767) gallons per "fill up" at $3.50/gal-$5/gal at most FBO's. About 4000-6000 miles range. It's easy to see why an airliner will cost a fortune per year in fuel alone. A custom interior for an airliner far exceeds $2M. Much more likely to be $25M.

My suggestion has considerably more range (at 8,500 miles) then all but the longest range airliners (think A380) , is considerably faster M0.90 cruise, vs M0.80 and will fly as high as 51,000 feet, that means it's over all the weather. Can land at most common airports, can "tanker fuel in to remote locations" (that means it can land heavy) and needs no support.
 
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I would never argue about the suitability for purpose represented by the G650. The 757 is an exercise brought on by the price differential between a used (well used) 757 and the G550 and up executive transports that extend from $50M and exceed $100M.

757's are usually thin on the market with few units for sale. There are a few presently at around 15-18 years of age. One of those has relatively low hours (12,000 or so) with an exec interior and appears to be priced at $45M asking. Another one has more like airline hours (60,000+) on it that looks to be around $16M.

One of the main reasons for using the 757 as the example is its ability to use virtually any airport the G650 can use so that attribute washes out of the comparison. That's where a Super 27, for instance, along with a mountain of other reasons, is not suitable. There seems to always be one or two of those for sale including the conversion to the RR engines from the older Gulfstream.

Trumps airplane is also not fitted to this exercise as it is a very low time aircraft bought from Microsoft's cofounder Paul Allen some years ago. It's purchase price was likely well north of $100M. It was bought to impress, not to make economic sense in normal terms. Note also that aircraft, and many like it, has the internal airstair so that bit of ground handling you mention is taken care of.

The completion cost of a new aircraft interior in the "Trump style" would probably exceed $25M however more realistic interiors are available where the wheel need not be reinvented. If our 757 were to have an exec interior of some description already it would really help however. Changing out the "soft goods" and updating cabin management/comm systems could be done for, I'm guessing, $2-5M. It isn't clear to me if previously installed interior designs are "patented", if you will, so the design can not be reused. If not then selecting an existing design would be the way to go if it is an airliner conversion.

Operationally, you're right about maximum range. Even with 6-8 PATS tanks in the hold the range of a 757 will not much exceed 6,000 miles. But 6,000 miles, as they say, ain't nothing. But you would have to make a tech stop in Hawaii or Tahiti to make it to Sydney like you mentioned earlier. However if the Pacific isn't on your beat, well, you can get most anywhere worth going otherwise in one jump.

What do you guys charter the G650 for? Guaranteed number of hours per day? I'm assming wet and crew expense included. The direct costs are available but the lease cost would be good to know as well.

Do you have a feel for the overhaul cost of 757 engines? Hello out there airline guys, would you care to chime in?

And the cost of a heavy D-check/IRAN? Thoughts on that?

Thanks for playing.....
 
A friend of mine has given me a contact he knows at Jet Aviation-St. Louis. They're a well known MRO and refurb house. If I'm not too much of a pest maybe the guy can help with some general answers.
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar


What do you guys charter the G650 for? Guaranteed number of hours per day? I'm assming wet and crew expense included. The direct costs are available but the lease cost would be good to know as well.


Thanks for playing.....


The G650 in our flight department is strictly part 91. No charters or use by anyone other than the owner. It's his "family car".

But, at a landing weight of less than 70,000 pounds, we most certainly can use airports the 757 cannot. And with auto brakes, stopping in 1500 feet, short runways are no problem.

Other advantages include a highly pressurized cabin, 11 PSId, and 4 layers of differing insulation to make it near silent, there is much less fatigue on long flights. 16 minutes to 40,000 feet, 19 minutes to 47,000 feet, while climbing at M0.87 make it fast on any trip. While we are new to the 650, we are noticing significant faster block to block times than our G550.

There really are valid reasons to choose a modern corporate jet. While not airline-big inside, the G650 is large enough for someone 6'4" to stand up without touching the top. And plenty of room for family/friends and their bags.
 
No argument from me, the 650 is a RollsRoyce and built for a specific purpose which it does very well. One thing though, the published takeoff field length for the long range ER version, sea level-standard day is almost 6,400 feet. High-Hot, 5,000 ft. Elevation, ISA plus 25 degrees is over 11,000 feet of runway. I think I would be comfortable in operating a 757 on such runways. There are plenty of guys on here smarter than me so maybe they have a different opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
No argument from me, the 650 is a RollsRoyce and built for a specific purpose which it does very well. One thing though, the published takeoff field length for the long range ER version, sea level-standard day is almost 6,400 feet. High-Hot, 5,000 ft. Elevation, ISA plus 25 degrees is over 11,000 feet of runway. I think I would be comfortable in operating a 757 on such runways. There are plenty of guys on here smarter than me so maybe they have a different opinion.


The G650 carries 44,800 pounds of fuel at max gross. Unless you are going from Texas to Sydney, Australia, you will not fill it up. Runway length requirements are significantly reduced at more normal weights. A flight from South Florida to West Texas, against the winds, requires 11,000 pounds total, 1/4 tank, with double NBAA IFR reserves.

As you know, all long range aircraft need to carry a lot of fuel to make that range. However, it's exceptionally rare to "top it off" as there are only a handful of city pairs that use that range.

So those numbers are only for max range.
 
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