Kind of funny that you never hear the American workers at Honda in Ohio or Toyota in Kentucky claiming you are "unpatriotic" if you don't buy their product.
The truth about American-made cars
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Originally Posted By: KitaCam
I think there's a reputation that Chinese manufacturers have for cutting corners to meet quotas and low prices, resulting in poor quality, or at least inconsistent quality...
...I've experienced this at indie repair shops who try Chinese-made off-label branded parts until they fail in less than a year and have to be replaced with OEM parts...typically Japanese-made parts...
...but Japanese OEM brands now make parts in other countries, so getting OEM may be the issue rather than country of origin.
GM, Ford and Chrysler use tons of parts made in China.
I think there's a reputation that Chinese manufacturers have for cutting corners to meet quotas and low prices, resulting in poor quality, or at least inconsistent quality...
...I've experienced this at indie repair shops who try Chinese-made off-label branded parts until they fail in less than a year and have to be replaced with OEM parts...typically Japanese-made parts...
...but Japanese OEM brands now make parts in other countries, so getting OEM may be the issue rather than country of origin.
GM, Ford and Chrysler use tons of parts made in China.
Yes, Doog, as I said, the issue may be quality control of OEM vs off-label branded parts, and not country of origin.
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There isn't one bad car being made today, so buy whatever puts a smile on your face. If you have some silly vendetta against a particular company or even worse an entire country of product, you're really being ignorant.
Originally Posted By: Doog
Kind of funny that you never hear the American workers at Honda in Ohio or Toyota in Kentucky claiming you are "unpatriotic" if you don't buy their product.
+1
Kind of funny that you never hear the American workers at Honda in Ohio or Toyota in Kentucky claiming you are "unpatriotic" if you don't buy their product.
+1
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
We bought our third Ohio built Accord in late autumn.
We retired the '97 and still run the '99.
We've had seven Hondas, three of which were Ohio builds.
I'm happy to buy something good that provides employment to the residents of my own state.
Contrary to what some have posted, it isn't so much that Japanese brand durability and reliability have declined as it is that American brands have improved and largely closed the gap.
WRT national content, as many have posted, it isn't calculable for anyone not in the industry.
The supply chain is simply too complicated to apply the test of who touched a piece last.
+1
We bought our third Ohio built Accord in late autumn.
We retired the '97 and still run the '99.
We've had seven Hondas, three of which were Ohio builds.
I'm happy to buy something good that provides employment to the residents of my own state.
Contrary to what some have posted, it isn't so much that Japanese brand durability and reliability have declined as it is that American brands have improved and largely closed the gap.
WRT national content, as many have posted, it isn't calculable for anyone not in the industry.
The supply chain is simply too complicated to apply the test of who touched a piece last.
+1
Originally Posted By: sciphi
I purchased a union-built, made in Ohio Detroit 3 car brand-new since it happened to be the best choice for me at the $20,000 mark. The fact that it happened to be faster, quieter, better-handling, and more fuel-efficient than any of its competition, ie a better driver's car, swayed me to purchase it over a "foreign-make" car.
Detroit is putting out some fantastic cars these days. Even if they're tweaked "global" designs.
Whatever you do, don't tell us what "UNION BUILT" wonder you bought.
I purchased a union-built, made in Ohio Detroit 3 car brand-new since it happened to be the best choice for me at the $20,000 mark. The fact that it happened to be faster, quieter, better-handling, and more fuel-efficient than any of its competition, ie a better driver's car, swayed me to purchase it over a "foreign-make" car.
Detroit is putting out some fantastic cars these days. Even if they're tweaked "global" designs.
Whatever you do, don't tell us what "UNION BUILT" wonder you bought.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
There isn't one bad car being made today, so buy whatever puts a smile on your face. If you have some silly vendetta against a particular company or even worse an entire country of product, you're really being ignorant.
Best post in the thread.
There isn't one bad car being made today, so buy whatever puts a smile on your face. If you have some silly vendetta against a particular company or even worse an entire country of product, you're really being ignorant.
Best post in the thread.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
There isn't one bad car being made today, so buy whatever puts a smile on your face. If you have some silly vendetta against a particular company or even worse an entire country of product, you're really being ignorant.
Vendetta? I hope you used the wrong word. Vendetta implies vengence against another person or in this case, country or product. However many of us here Prefer USA made, or as the case may be, corporate headquartered. That doesn't make us ignorant.
There isn't one bad car being made today, so buy whatever puts a smile on your face. If you have some silly vendetta against a particular company or even worse an entire country of product, you're really being ignorant.
Vendetta? I hope you used the wrong word. Vendetta implies vengence against another person or in this case, country or product. However many of us here Prefer USA made, or as the case may be, corporate headquartered. That doesn't make us ignorant.
They actually liscense some of the tech from ZF but the transmissions have been redisgned and modified and built at Kokomo, with parts made here , not imported. So the trans is basically a modified ZF design but built here and parts made here.
Per the prior post, the % content in the car does NOT include cotent in the plant, I have a old issue of Chiltons automotive monthly and they had a nice article of how the tooling, design of the tooling etc makes up over 50% of the cost in a new car program and that Toyota and Honda keep this competancy in house, so when they tool up for a new model, all the tooling is deisgned and built in Japan and then installed into all the plants so everything is the same, so no domestic content there and that is not figured into the calculations of content in the car!
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Not a single import in our stable, both fleet and personal. I am not totally anti import, but I am totally in favor of supporting my American workers as much as possible.
The quality "gap" ain't what it used to be, the American mfgrs have made huge strides. each year brings better and better cars to the market.
Chrysler builds hemi engines in Mexico.
And their new transmissions are made under ZF license in Indiana with German and French parts, or made by ZF in South Carolina or Saarbrucken, Germany. Just like how GM will buy ZF, Denso and Bosch stuff for Cadillacs and bring in trannies from their Strasbourg, France tranny plant.
Ford also buys/sources from France, Germany and soon Spain. My neighbor's Explorer is basically European powered - with a Cologne V6 made in Germany and a French 5R55N tranny.
Per the prior post, the % content in the car does NOT include cotent in the plant, I have a old issue of Chiltons automotive monthly and they had a nice article of how the tooling, design of the tooling etc makes up over 50% of the cost in a new car program and that Toyota and Honda keep this competancy in house, so when they tool up for a new model, all the tooling is deisgned and built in Japan and then installed into all the plants so everything is the same, so no domestic content there and that is not figured into the calculations of content in the car!
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Not a single import in our stable, both fleet and personal. I am not totally anti import, but I am totally in favor of supporting my American workers as much as possible.
The quality "gap" ain't what it used to be, the American mfgrs have made huge strides. each year brings better and better cars to the market.
Chrysler builds hemi engines in Mexico.
And their new transmissions are made under ZF license in Indiana with German and French parts, or made by ZF in South Carolina or Saarbrucken, Germany. Just like how GM will buy ZF, Denso and Bosch stuff for Cadillacs and bring in trannies from their Strasbourg, France tranny plant.
Ford also buys/sources from France, Germany and soon Spain. My neighbor's Explorer is basically European powered - with a Cologne V6 made in Germany and a French 5R55N tranny.
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Originally Posted By: Doog
I buy what I like. But have found that UAW made products are really inferior. You can tell in the fit and finish and many of the drive line products have serious early flaws and failures. My thoughts are if the workers just did their jobs they wouldn't have to have a union to threaten their employer every time they make mistakes. So I really have no reason to support that system as it simply costs too much. The whole political assumption that if you don't buy some union guy's inferior product makes you less of a patriotic citizen is really just propaganda.
But the Japanese unions get a free pass?
I buy what I like. But have found that UAW made products are really inferior. You can tell in the fit and finish and many of the drive line products have serious early flaws and failures. My thoughts are if the workers just did their jobs they wouldn't have to have a union to threaten their employer every time they make mistakes. So I really have no reason to support that system as it simply costs too much. The whole political assumption that if you don't buy some union guy's inferior product makes you less of a patriotic citizen is really just propaganda.
But the Japanese unions get a free pass?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Doog
I buy what I like. But have found that UAW made products are really inferior. You can tell in the fit and finish and many of the drive line products have serious early flaws and failures. My thoughts are if the workers just did their jobs they wouldn't have to have a union to threaten their employer every time they make mistakes. So I really have no reason to support that system as it simply costs too much. The whole political assumption that if you don't buy some union guy's inferior product makes you less of a patriotic citizen is really just propaganda.
But the Japanese unions get a free pass?
The UAW operates in Japan?
Originally Posted By: Doog
I buy what I like. But have found that UAW made products are really inferior. You can tell in the fit and finish and many of the drive line products have serious early flaws and failures. My thoughts are if the workers just did their jobs they wouldn't have to have a union to threaten their employer every time they make mistakes. So I really have no reason to support that system as it simply costs too much. The whole political assumption that if you don't buy some union guy's inferior product makes you less of a patriotic citizen is really just propaganda.
But the Japanese unions get a free pass?
The UAW operates in Japan?
Japan unionized during the Meji period, although membership has declined to about 18% these days.
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Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Doog
I buy what I like. But have found that UAW made products are really inferior. You can tell in the fit and finish and many of the drive line products have serious early flaws and failures. My thoughts are if the workers just did their jobs they wouldn't have to have a union to threaten their employer every time they make mistakes. So I really have no reason to support that system as it simply costs too much. The whole political assumption that if you don't buy some union guy's inferior product makes you less of a patriotic citizen is really just propaganda.
But the Japanese unions get a free pass?
The UAW operates in Japan?
They have the JAW there. http://www.jaw.or.jp/e/
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Doog
I buy what I like. But have found that UAW made products are really inferior. You can tell in the fit and finish and many of the drive line products have serious early flaws and failures. My thoughts are if the workers just did their jobs they wouldn't have to have a union to threaten their employer every time they make mistakes. So I really have no reason to support that system as it simply costs too much. The whole political assumption that if you don't buy some union guy's inferior product makes you less of a patriotic citizen is really just propaganda.
But the Japanese unions get a free pass?
The UAW operates in Japan?
They have the JAW there. http://www.jaw.or.jp/e/
Unless I missed it, neither the article nor anyone here has linked to the DuBois study quoted in the article.
Here is a brief synopsis:
http://www.american.edu/media/news/20130..._in_America.cfm
Here is a related article:
http://kogodnow.com/2013/03/in-globalization-age-what-does-made-in-america-mean/
Here's the full index of cars:
http://kogodnow.com/autoindex/
Here's the link to NHTSA's full report of US/Canadian content:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Act+%28AALA%29+Reports
I don't think DuBois's reasoning is flawless, but it's nonetheless an interesting read.
The only thing I'll add is that if you want to buy American, there are still quite a few Big 3 cars to avoid like the plague. The Fusion is one glaring example. It's made in Mexico with only 30% US/Canadian content.
Here is a brief synopsis:
http://www.american.edu/media/news/20130..._in_America.cfm
Here is a related article:
http://kogodnow.com/2013/03/in-globalization-age-what-does-made-in-america-mean/
Here's the full index of cars:
http://kogodnow.com/autoindex/
Here's the link to NHTSA's full report of US/Canadian content:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Act+%28AALA%29+Reports
I don't think DuBois's reasoning is flawless, but it's nonetheless an interesting read.
The only thing I'll add is that if you want to buy American, there are still quite a few Big 3 cars to avoid like the plague. The Fusion is one glaring example. It's made in Mexico with only 30% US/Canadian content.
Originally Posted By: Doog
Kind of funny that you never hear the American workers at Honda in Ohio or Toyota in Kentucky claiming you are "unpatriotic" if you don't buy their product.
LOL how would they when they aren't really the ones really making an American product? You say some funny things.
Kind of funny that you never hear the American workers at Honda in Ohio or Toyota in Kentucky claiming you are "unpatriotic" if you don't buy their product.
LOL how would they when they aren't really the ones really making an American product? You say some funny things.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I think it's humorous how the "foreign transplants" are only doing business here to undercut "domestic" automakers, regarded by some on here as a dirty business tactic to increase market share. Yet when "domestic" automakers go to other countries to build cars for those local markets, it's a good business decision to keep the company competitive.
If you asked the UAW I'm sure they'd say that it would be better to produce those vehicles here in the US and then put them on a boat.
That's right. And then we'd want the Chinese to buy our foreign-made goods, because they're good products. They're American-built Jeeps afterall. They're GOOD products.
As much as we would or will want the Chinese to buy our American-made Jeeps, we certainly can't see the value in buying Japanese- or Korean-made cars that were floated to the Port of Los Angeles. Shoot, we can't even come to grips with a Honda made in Ohio.
I don't see any inconsistiency. If GM were to build cars in Japan for their market I'd say it was to the benefit of GM and America. Just as I say it's to the benefit of Japan and the Japanese automaker to build cars in the US for the US market. The only inconsistiencies I see is those claiming it's all the same. It's somehow wrong to route for the US and US automakers?
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I think it's humorous how the "foreign transplants" are only doing business here to undercut "domestic" automakers, regarded by some on here as a dirty business tactic to increase market share. Yet when "domestic" automakers go to other countries to build cars for those local markets, it's a good business decision to keep the company competitive.
If you asked the UAW I'm sure they'd say that it would be better to produce those vehicles here in the US and then put them on a boat.
That's right. And then we'd want the Chinese to buy our foreign-made goods, because they're good products. They're American-built Jeeps afterall. They're GOOD products.
As much as we would or will want the Chinese to buy our American-made Jeeps, we certainly can't see the value in buying Japanese- or Korean-made cars that were floated to the Port of Los Angeles. Shoot, we can't even come to grips with a Honda made in Ohio.
I don't see any inconsistiency. If GM were to build cars in Japan for their market I'd say it was to the benefit of GM and America. Just as I say it's to the benefit of Japan and the Japanese automaker to build cars in the US for the US market. The only inconsistiencies I see is those claiming it's all the same. It's somehow wrong to route for the US and US automakers?
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: dishdude
There isn't one bad car being made today, so buy whatever puts a smile on your face. If you have some silly vendetta against a particular company or even worse an entire country of product, you're really being ignorant.
Vendetta? I hope you used the wrong word. Vendetta implies vengence against another person or in this case, country or product. However many of us here Prefer USA made, or as the case may be, corporate headquartered. That doesn't make us ignorant.
That is exactly the word I meant to use. Everyone of these threads gets littered with a drive-by one liner about how bad American cars are, how bad the UAW is, Japanese cars rust and aren't what they used to be, Korean cars are copies of others, the Vega was junk, my Accord was built in Ohio but the Fusion is built in Mexico, etc... We've heard them all over and over again and it's getting old.
If you aren't cross shopping everything in the category you are buying, you are doing yourself a disservice and missing out.
There is a continued lack of courtesy and respect by a few trolls that feel the need to justify and reinforce their preference in vehicles. It adds nothing to the thread, and nothing to this site. It also does nothing for their opinion.
To the trolls - do you stop people in the parking lot of the grocery store and berate them on their car purchase? If a friend or coworker buys a car do you make negative comments? If you act like you do on this forum, you must be a real joy to be around.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
There isn't one bad car being made today, so buy whatever puts a smile on your face. If you have some silly vendetta against a particular company or even worse an entire country of product, you're really being ignorant.
Vendetta? I hope you used the wrong word. Vendetta implies vengence against another person or in this case, country or product. However many of us here Prefer USA made, or as the case may be, corporate headquartered. That doesn't make us ignorant.
That is exactly the word I meant to use. Everyone of these threads gets littered with a drive-by one liner about how bad American cars are, how bad the UAW is, Japanese cars rust and aren't what they used to be, Korean cars are copies of others, the Vega was junk, my Accord was built in Ohio but the Fusion is built in Mexico, etc... We've heard them all over and over again and it's getting old.
If you aren't cross shopping everything in the category you are buying, you are doing yourself a disservice and missing out.
There is a continued lack of courtesy and respect by a few trolls that feel the need to justify and reinforce their preference in vehicles. It adds nothing to the thread, and nothing to this site. It also does nothing for their opinion.
To the trolls - do you stop people in the parking lot of the grocery store and berate them on their car purchase? If a friend or coworker buys a car do you make negative comments? If you act like you do on this forum, you must be a real joy to be around.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I get good service from my domestics but a lot of import owners can't accept that and still think their imports are better. Imports are not better. They just cost more to fix when they break.
what he said!
I get good service from my domestics but a lot of import owners can't accept that and still think their imports are better. Imports are not better. They just cost more to fix when they break.
what he said!
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