The reliability hoax...

[brianl703]

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fwiw, I hear VW is now using the same wiring harness supplier as Honda and TOYOTA.

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Excluding incorrect underhood wiring insulation, I have not seen any problems caused by wiring harness issues.

Incidentally, the harnesses that Ford used in the Contour/Mystique with the incorrect wiring insulation were made by Yazaki. I have no idea who besides Ford they make/made harnesses for, but they are a Japanese firm and you know how Japanese firms like to keep it "all in the family".

 

[JHZR2]

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Some of my more "favorite" cousincletus-isms:

"Dang, somehow a Toyota recall thread turned into a GM hate thread. The import lovers just can't stand the fact that their precious Toyotas aren't any better than a GM. In fact, they don't seem to hold up as well. They just paid thousands more for them. Haha suckers!"

"No point in even trying to make sense with the likes of ScottB. He'll realize when he loses his job to the foreign competition and then he can pop his zits in the unemployment line."

"Support the country you live in or live in the country you support."

" Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics. Even if you win you're still a 'tard."

Just a few of the good ones to let everyone know the type of person your dealing with. BTW, if one of my boys was physically or mentally handicapped I would have even more of a problem with your last comment. Do you realize that the only reason you are not a "tard" (as you call them) is CHANCE. Getting to the point where I'd appreciate a site moderator to intervene when such statements are made. Sort of goes along with what javacontour is saying.

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So now youre spreading dirt, so youve essentially stooped to a lower level. Congratulations!!!

If you don't like what he says, then fine, state it in situ, when you read it. This thread is not a 'worst of', where youre saving ammunition for the right time. If you are really against something said by anyone, then alert the moderators. Youre just causing more polarity than already existed. This is a major negative no matter what...

this whole argument is funny anyway. Cousin is generically pro-American, while many others are explicitly pro-toyota or pro-honda, etc. Its two different animals.

Love of country vs. brand loyalty shouldnt be turned into an argument.

JMH

 

[javacontour]

Exactly,

One cannot draw the conclusion that if one prefers Toyota or BMW to GM or Ford that they do not love America.

Many falsely claim that buying a foreign car equates to not loving America or not supporting America.

These are simply not supportable conclusions, and when folks make such largely false, blanket statements, I'll call them on it.

To me, one of the best ways I can support the American auto industry is to continue to expect what I consider to be the best product for my families money.

Buying something just because of where it's made, or where the company is HQ'ed may be coddling and ultimately counter-productive when it comes to providing long-term support.

 

[JHZR2]

While I agree with the first part of the statement, I disagree on the second part.

As far as cars go, it is way too large a purchase, too emotional a purchase, and too personality-specific a purchase, for someone who ENJOYS cars to buy based upon localities...

That said, many people do believe rumours or generic statements, essentially stereotypes, and buy appliances that they could care less about, with minimal rhyme or reason. These people would do better by the country if they bought American cars. After all, the one thing that we do know is thatmost data available is biased/bought/spun, and only partially believeable.

If its unacceptable to pass along and accept stereoytpes about peoples' race, religion, color, s preference, etc., then why is it OK for average joe to buy stereotypes about foreign/domestic vehicles, lock stock and barrel?

As for anything else, it is, as always, a case by case basis... however, few things are as personal as an auto to an enthusiast, due to the hours spent in said item. I buy American whenever possible in my day to day. Tools, widgets, anything that has the made in USA stamp is superior out of my starting gate to anything that is not (with origins from Japan and the more develloped EU countries an exception sometimes, depending upon the item). That's just my equation for trying to buy where I pay my taxes, but more importantly on a personal scale, that has been, in my experience, my best equation for value.

Since I harped on autos being an exception, for me, I am unbiased as far as vehicular origin goes. For me, I am looking for the best cross section of new purchase value (I keep my cars forever, so could really care less about reslae), equipment that I desire (which equates back to value), and to a lesser but still strong extent, style. For example, I might love the looks of the subaru station wagon, and think it is a great car. However, it is no longer available with MT in the base engine form, so as much as I like the vehicle, it is off my list.

THats how I do it... to each their own. I DO think that as a rule of thumb, it is a good move to try to buy domestic anything wherever possible.

JMH

 

[javacontour]

Which statement? It seems you have largely agreed with me.

I considered writing something similar with regards to comparing pro | anti foreign car being akin to racism.

Like I said earlier in this thread (or was it a different thread on this very same topic?) I don't think the domestic car-makers are producing polished pieces of excrement, nor do I believe Japanese cars to be perfect.

 

[JHZR2]

I don't FULLY agree that NOT buying domestic vehicles is the manner of which one can cause a turn-around... Such "hard love" may very well not work.

That said, robust analysis of the best vehicle, not biased by nameplate or perceived reliability, will yield what it does, foreign or domestic. Most buyers have some other wrench in the works though, thinking that they are educated and informed customers...

JMH

 

[cousincletus]

"Consumer patriotism" is putting your money where your mouth is. It's clear that the US manufacturers don't make an inferior product, so my decision is to not consider an import when I decide to make a purchase that is typically 15-25,000 USD. Your decision may vary, but where I have a problem is when a few folks on this board go out of their way to badmouth the American mfgs looking for an argument, then whine when someone says something about them. I'm watching this country go down the commode firsthand as more and more US companies are closing their doors to move overseas so their profits will look better next quarter. The US auto manufacturers do a respectable job in keeping their domestic parts contents high on most of their models. Someday, we will all see the impact from our insane foreign trade deficit and it ain't gonna be pretty.

 

[javacontour]

I think we are saying the same things, that one is best served and also best serves if they do the research and buy the very best they can afford to buy, regardless of nameplate.

Not everyone will agree on what constitutes best. For some, it's superior handling. For others it's luxury and smooth ride, for another subset, it's reliability and/or servicability, and the list goes on and on.

If I needed a vehicle to carry five adults, my Scion tC would not be the best choice. If it's me and my daughter, the Scion tC may in fact actually be the best choice.

 

[javacontour]

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"Consumer patriotism" is putting your money where your mouth is. It's clear that the US manufacturers don't make an inferior product, so my decision is to not consider an import when I decide to make a purchase that is typically 15-25,000 USD. Your decision may vary, but where I have a problem is when a few folks on this board go out of their way to badmouth the American mfgs looking for an argument, then whine when someone says something about them. I'm watching this country go down the commode firsthand as more and more US companies are closing their doors to move overseas so their profits will look better next quarter. The US auto manufacturers do a respectable job in keeping their domestic parts contents high on most of their models. Someday, we will all see the impact from our insane foreign trade deficit and it ain't gonna be pretty.

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Cousincletus, how do our imports compare to GDP in a percentage?

I think you will be suprised to find that as a percentage of GDP, our trade deficit is one of the lowest in the world.

Sure, it's a big number, when you look at it alone. However, data has to be placed in perspective, and if we as a percentage, import far fewer of our goods that almost everyone else in the world, we are in excellent shape.

So, I challenge you to look at the numbers and let us know what percentage of GDP we actually do import, and where do we rank, percentage wise, compared to the rest of the world.

 

[javacontour]

Found it.

Originally Posted by me a while back

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What is interesting about those stats is our economy is not so horrible after all.

People complain about imports, but when you look at imports as a percentage of GDP, we have one of the lowest percentage of imports to the GDP in the world. Only a handful of nations import a smaller amount percentage wise.

Of course, we are the largest importer in the world, but at only 14.95% of GDP that makes us 160th of 165 as listed on this page http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_imp_of_goo_and_ser_as_of_gdp

We are up there in the taxes too. Not the highest, but certainly not the lowest either when you look at the total tax burden on workers.

 

[ryansride2017]

This is great.

"So now youre spreading dirt, so youve essentially stooped to a lower level. Congratulations!!!"

Posting direct quotations that HE made IS NOT spreading dirt. I let his own words speak for themselves. We are all responsible for what we post on here, whether it was yesterday or a year ago. What we say/type reflects directly on the type of person we are.

"If you don't like what he says, then fine, state it in situ, when you read it. This thread is not a 'worst of', where youre saving ammunition for the right time."

Your absolutely right and that's why I posted in this thread. Although I've been around awhile, I don't live on this board (check my post count). The only way I found some of those statements was to do a search of posts that he made. I didn't read or even know of his "tard" post when he made it or I would have made a comment back then. My only goal was to let people know what type of person they are dealing with when he continually makes degrading (suggestive or not) comments about people who purchase certain automotive brands USING HIS OWN WORDS.

 

[JHZR2]

cousincletus does make some excellent points though.

I have been briefed a number of times on the state of R&D and S&T in this country, its effect upon the knowledge base of this country, and its effects.

So much CR&D is moving out in the name of price efficiency, that we really, truly are turning into a country of managerial idiots. For true. There is very little real knowledge that the typical American has - calculus, chemistry, physics, etc...

Some say what is the point... but look what this country is becoming...

Manufacturing disapearing is scary, but what is REALLY scary is our companies sending technical superiority over into the hands of the lowest bidder to improve the stock price today.

JMH

 

[ryansride2017]

"cousincletus does make some excellent points though."

I would never scorn anyone for being pro-domestic. If cousincletus has always had good luck with Ford and G.M., good for him. He should continue buying what makes him most comfortable. I certainly wouldn't call him a sucker for doing so. The purpose of my posts was to reduce the name-calling and negativity for those of us that have more luck or just prefer a foreign-build car or truck.

 

[PowerPeeCee]

thank you. THANK YOU, JHZR2

This is one of my major leage, all time pet peeves, the fact that Americans blithely allow corporations to move both jobs and technology overseas, all in the name of the stockholders, I despise corporations and the poeple who run them, when are we going to stop letting the corporate goons with ZERO humanity and/or decency run our lives?

It's either people who are completely amoralistic profiteers or hopelessly incompetent running the show right now and I think it's time we kicked the idiots out and got started on restoring some sense of faith in our ways and means and methods. I hate to be the "Your whole system sux, DIE PLZ K THX" type, but it's just the way I feel, I used to believe that America was a great place, and now I'm not sure about that, I've honestly given great consideration to moving somewhere else in order that I may live in a place that is at least marginally intelligent and decently run. Somewhere that I can get a job not behing a cash register or in an office full of sniveling, whining, egomaniacal, easily offended drones.

 

[TeeDub]

The ONLY reason why the quality of domestic vehicles are so much better today than 15-20 years ago is competition, first from the Germans/Swedes (remember the VW Beetle?) and now from the Japanese and the South Koreans.

Without competition there would have been no reason for the big three to continually improve the quality of their vehicles. I see no reason why the US can't compete and win this competition, since by and large we have the best engineering schools in the world.

 

[Hermann]

All I know is that my last 4 domestic cars(Tempo, taurus, taurus and focus)all had many trips to dealer for in warranty service. Every one except the focus, the A/T failed between 60 and 80K, even with 30K service intervals. The focus was a manual. In just under 2 years with my Honda, only one warranty trip, and I was just nitpicking while it was in for a freebie oil change at the dealer.

And lets not even talk about fit and finish. My GF's new $28.5K(paid $23K) Mercury Mariner seats have no support, the plastics are second grade, the engine is so LOUD that you if your eyes were closed you would swear you were riding on a roadgrader. About the only good thing you can say about the vehicle is it has really nice, direct, properly weighted steering. Must be the Mazda influence in the original design way back when. I read the review recently on Edmunds on the refreshed 2008 Escape. The V-6 version took over 10 sec to reach 60 MPH. So apparently Ford wants people to buy the same old $hit for 5 or 6 more years. I hope the NVH is better because my GF's Mariner is the LOUDEST vehicle I have ever been in. I'm with H2GURU in that many of the victims of domestics wont be back for a long time.

 

[1sttruck]

"..All I know is that my last 4 domestic cars(Tempo, taurus, taurus and focus)all had many trips to dealer for in warranty service. Every one except the focus, the A/T failed between 60 and 80K, even with 30K service intervals."

That's still about twice as long as a coworker's Accura, where the tranny failed at a bit over 30k miles. Honda is recalling something another 80k vehicles for wiring problems. When it's time to buy another vehicle for the wife or kids we'll look at what's available regardless of where it's made, as no one seems to have cornered the market on long lasting and trouble free vehicles. I have what might be the last vehicle that I'll need to buy, as I expect the Dodge diesel to last about another 25 to 30 years.

 

[brianl703]

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Honda is recalling something another 80k vehicles for wiring problems.

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I posted about that here yesterday. Funny, no responses yet.

 

[brianl703]

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I hate to be the "Your whole system sux, DIE PLZ K THX" type, but it's just the way I feel, I used to believe that America was a great place, and now I'm not sure about that, I've honestly given great consideration to moving somewhere else in order that I may live in a place that is at least marginally intelligent and decently run.

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The apathy most people have amazes me. I guess as long as the idiot box is working and there's 150 channels, who cares.

 

[TooManyWheels]

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I see no reason why the US can't compete and win this competition, since by and large we have the best engineering schools in the world.

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Unfortunately the engineers are ultimately governed by managers with a short term outlook who believe that you can overdo quality, and what quality you need can be produced instantaneously, like turning on a switch. In that environment the quality of engineers is not the limiting factor.